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Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:39 pm

Hey guys,

anybody else living in an area where the oil companies have brokers sniffing around for land leases? My area is a hot-bed of activity since the Texas based geologists completed their study last fall. I'm interested to know how this gas mining has affected areas where the drilling is already underway.

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Here you go.. the full version is available on youtube as well..

Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:29 am

If that movie is accurate, as it sure seems to be, then you should be fighting back hard.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:26 am

Looks like a Michael Moore effort.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:58 am

At least get the unbiased facts please to allow for an informed decision.....

http://www.epa.gov/hydraulicfracture/

Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:38 am

Signed a lease a year ago or so in PA.
I have no problem with it.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:45 am

Randy in Maine wrote: At least get the unbiased facts please to allow for an informed decision.....

http://www.epa.gov/hydraulicfracture/

While Fox's gasland is definetely biased, I wouldn't say that the EPA is much better.

There is a lot of money being thrown around to keep things going.

From the EPA page.

Providing Regulatory Clarity and Protections against Known Risks

Although the national study should enhance our scientific knowledge, some concerns associated with overall natural gas and shale gas extraction, including hydraulic fracturing, are already well known. These operations can result in a number of potential impacts to the environment, including:
Stress on surface water and ground water supplies from the withdrawal of large volumes of water used in drilling and hydraulic fracturing;
Contamination of underground sources of drinking water and surface waters resulting from spills, faulty well construction, or by other means;
Adverse impacts from discharges into surface waters or from disposal into underground injection wells; and
Air pollution resulting from the release of volatile organic compounds, hazardous air pollutants, and greenhouse gases.
Because natural gas development is increasing rapidly in many regions, prudent steps to reduce these impacts are essential now even as further research to understand potential risks continues.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:00 am

Well the difference is that EPA works for all of us, and that is what really makes them different. Do your homework and get the facts.

Are there risks? Of course.

Can it be done safely? Of course.

Can it be done wrong? Of course.

Make an informed decision.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:29 am

Randy in Maine wrote: Well the difference is that EPA works for all of us, and that is what really makes them different. Do your homework and get the facts.

Are there risks? Of course.

Can it be done safely? Of course.

Can it be done wrong? Of course.

Make an informed decision.

I agree that it can be done safely. But when it comes down to it, and these corporations are on your land, do you think their number one concern is your safety or getting their product? I'm sure the land lease has plenty of fine print protecting them from faults.

But I could be completely wrong. I've never looked at a lease not have any experience with the whole situation other than what I've found via Internet.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:43 pm

I know what the op is talking about. This is bad news for our area. The EPA and our governor has sold us out. The state of Ohio is free for the raping. I'm two miles away from the next proposed site that is located in a major metropolitan area of over 50k residents...I'm also on a well. The water being used in this fracturing will be wastewater from the Pennsylvania wells. Will it pollute? Yes because the act of dumping it is exactly "poisoning the well" There are no questions that need answered for me. No fracking! Who will buy my land once its poisoned? No one? Who has to pay for environmental damages? No one! These companies are often given " held harmless certifications" to entice this ridiculous industry. When shit hits the fan it's you and I on the other side trying to contain the splatter. These companies will be onto the next dummy willing to sign the line and sell out his neighbors.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:43 pm

well, the recent news is there is a fellow from up north of here that is interested in "representing" the land owners in my area, making sure that the leases are slanted in our favor, which I suppose is better than working directly with the broker. This fellow's fee is 1.2% of the lease total. In my area, the lease offers are sitting at 4500/acre, with 21% in royalty payments. While I wish this wasn't going to happen, the farmers around me on all sides; some amish, some mennonite are pretty well sold on the idea. the way things sit right now I am basically screwing myself by NOT signing up by what the attorney was saying at the meeting. It was explained to me that because of the lay of the land, and the nature of the drilling techniques, the gas/oil will eventually be extracted out from under me whether I sign up or not, and if I choose not to sign and something does go wrong, the burden of proof for any damages will be on me. If I choose to be represented, the contract will place the burden of proof of the drilling company if something goes wrong with my water/land. In simple terms, I am being forced to sign up for this. :x This county is in the crapper.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:51 pm

You should read that contract very carefully. I have read that many of these contracts are written to make it very difficult to hold the drilling company accountable. And the drillers have much deeper pockets than the average citizen so even if the contract holds them accountable it becomes the plaintiff's task (and expense) to hold them to it.

Never did I think such a thing would come to pass so close to where I live.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:38 pm

You are correct. With side drilling they're getting your minerals and screwing up your ground water no matter what.

Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:42 pm

my neighborhood, which in these parts is quite large, has sat in front of several land resource managers and have reached a consensus on this fellow, mainly because he is joined at the hip with a reputable law-firm that has a focus on paper law in land management agreements. My neighborhood has turned down 5 offers to date because they didn't lean heavily enough in the favor of the land owner. I still feel like I'm being bamboozled, but there really is no way around this from where I sit.

The land that I own was passed down to my wife and I from her grandparents, who have roots on this acreage dating back to 1809. My wife's 5xgreat grandfather came here from Switzerland and cleared this land with his sons and grandsons. It took them the better part of 20 years to clear a 1200 acre parcel, ripping stumps and removing stones which are still piled neatly along the edge of the woods. The land was parceled off to the sons, and subsequently divided among the grandchildren, culminating in the gifting of the parcel where our house now stands.

I just don't feel right about the direction things are going in this valley.

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:13 am

There are so many injunctions and lawsuits against fracking going on right now I'll bet they are pressuring you folks to sign leases before they are stopped by legal actions. Just google fracking and injunctions and lawsuits against it and you'll see that the resistance to fracking is growing.

It's easy for me to sit here and say what I would and wouldn't do, but my gut tells me I would not sign, in the hopes that the hostility to fracking stops them even after they sign with the landowners. I just would not want to sign away my rights, especially to something that is so much a part of me and my family history.

It kind of reminds me of the "blockbusting" tactics of the 60's, where real estate speculators would get one homeowner to sell and then everyone else would follow out of fear.

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:33 am

79SuperVert wrote:
It kind of reminds me of the "blockbusting" tactics of the 60's, where real estate speculators would get one homeowner to sell and then everyone else would follow out of fear. I'm gonna call you on that one. Either you're nearly 70 now or you've watched some videos of the 60's. No one "remembers" them.

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:54 am

notchback wrote: 79SuperVert wrote:
It kind of reminds me of the "blockbusting" tactics of the 60's, where real estate speculators would get one homeowner to sell and then everyone else would follow out of fear. I'm gonna call you on that one. Either you're nearly 70 now or you've watched some videos of the 60's. No one "remembers" them.

Blockbusting is alive and well. Happens every day.

Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:13 am

notchback wrote: 79SuperVert wrote:
It kind of reminds me of the "blockbusting" tactics of the 60's, where real estate speculators would get one homeowner to sell and then everyone else would follow out of fear. I'm gonna call you on that one. Either you're nearly 70 now or you've watched some videos of the 60's. No one "remembers" them.

My mother-in-law owned a small row house in downtown Jersey City, and a well-known and respected real estate agent who taught classes at Rutgers offered to buy her house along with many others on the block for a ridiculously low price by playing up the perceived decline of the neighborhood during a period of high crime and drug dealing. She told him to get lost (being Puerto Rican and growing up poor, she had her ways of dealing with roughnecks and petty criminals), but he succeeded with most everyone else on the block.

Fast forward to a few years ago, hers was the only house left on the block with Puerto Ricans living in it, while everyone else was young, white and making ten times what she made off her pension from her years in a factory. Their houses were remodeled, restored, with fancy brass lamps and new wrought iron railings and gorgeous chandeliers visible in the windows, while her house looked the same as it did since the '60's, a working-class house plain and simple.

We used to go to parties at her house, where a bunch of Puerto Rican family members stood outside the house on the stoop, or set up a domino table on the sidewalk, and hung out until late in the night, their kids running and playing up and down the street, while the "new" neighbors would walk by on the other side of the street staring and wondering what all the commotion was about. It wasn't a commotion, it was what neighborhood life used to be like: fun, relaxed, pleasant and friendly.

After she died, her daughter sold the house two years ago for a decent but not outrageous price, and was able to distribute the modest proceeds among the five siblings. Had my mother-in-law given in to the real estate agent's high pressure sales pitch, she would have had squat to leave her children.

Needless to say, that real estate agent and his company profited handsomely by selling those houses, not to drug dealers and criminals, but to young "pioneers" moving into run-down neighborhoods.

Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:21 am

We had our Well "Fracked" to get more water into it, our Well is 28 years old, new houses in the area & a drop in the water table ( I guess) caused us to run the Well dry, the fracking got us back in the game, no more running the Well down, and it did not cause any problems w/ the neighbors water.
I know this is waaaaaay different than the the Oil Fracking, but the guy who did our Well told us people are trying to shut him down.