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Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:46 pm

I guess I know the answer to this but I still want a quick fix and not a whole pan replacement at this time. I'm pretty sure the origin of the water damage was this:

Someone put a fan (that white plastic bit) in the heater channel and where the wire goes through underneath the back seat they dislodged the rubber gasket that lets the ignition wire to the starter through so they could fit the heater fan wires. Well, water comes through there and started rusting out the pan. I brushed off the tar sound paper and rust and there are some little holes in the pan now:

It does not look too bad under the car.
I want to sand blast this area lightly and cover it with SystemThree metal weld epoxy around the holes. It is a quick fix, I know, but it will save me time and money.

My question is: What is my next step when it comes time to do a real repair? Do I really have to do a complete pan replacement? Is there a partial pan replacement? How much can I just fill the pan and with what to hold off the rusting and keep water out?

Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:29 pm

you can buy quarter and half pans. Karmann Ghia Parts and Restoration has them

Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:48 am

Are there just a few holes?
Mine had only 3 or 4 holes in that area the rest was pretty good. Since it was the original Pan I chose to fill the holes with weld metal and file smooth. Primer and protective paint went over that. I'm not using the tar board any more, rather there's now removable padding so when it gets wet ( and it will) it's easily removed for drying.

Nicholas

Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:18 am

From the photos those holes appear to be small. Have you considered having them welded?

I don't think you need pan replacement - at least from the photos.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:46 am

It could be a while before I can drive up to where by sand blaster is.

I'll sand blast lightly and metal weld the spots

Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:09 am

Anybody ever try a temporary fix with POR-15 mixed w/ kitty hair to thicken it and expand it over holes? Not ideal, to be sure, but it could be done at home with little money or special equipment.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:14 am

NWGhiaGuy wrote: Anybody ever try a temporary fix with POR-15 mixed w/ kitty hair to thicken it and expand it over holes? Not ideal, to be sure, but it could be done at home with little money or special equipment.

Looking at the size and amount of holes the OP has, I'd just fill them in with tar, and call it good for a while. That way he could save some money up for replacement sections, and keep the water out. But I've tried what you're asking about on the load floor of a Squareback before. It lasted all of 1 year, before the POR 15 started to seperate and peel off the floor, and that was a car that didn't see winter use. :shock: I don't use Por 15 for anything any more, as it just doesn't work, and has cost me time and money in the long run. :evil:

Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:41 am

I'm just finishing pan repairs on the rear sections. I bought left & right rear pans and cut out the pieces I needed These were not small pieces. The biggest was as wide as the bottom part and from the seat rails back. Both sides had holes and the surrounding area was weak with rust, so I cut out three bad areas. It's a long tedious job to fit new pieces close enough to butt weld in new patches. It's especially hard for any curved spots like the rear. I am glad I decided to do it that way, as they are turning OK and will last for a long time. The seat mount and front areas were OK so they were left original. To complete the job, the front and back parts were scraped and sanded free of old tar board & paint. BTW, the old original paint is very hard stuff. Two coats of semi-gloss POR-15 applied. I think the POR will work if the applied to metal that's prepared exactly as they specify. It might seal holes that are smaller than a pin. A better idea for temp hole patch would be JB Weld. Clean the area really well, sand with 800 grit so the JB has a surface it can grab. Put a couple of layers duct tape on the bottom for temp backing, then work the JB into the hole and surrounding area with a small plastic putty knife. Finally run the knife over it to smooth a little, and let it cure. Remove the tape and sand the bottom if necessary. To beef up a larger spot, I might try a couple of layers of fiber glass woven cloth with the resin worked in to keep water out.

To just fill in holes with weld may be next to impossible because the surrounding area will be rusted down to very thin. This makes welding difficult. Most likely a welder will want to cut back the thin spots to where there's something to weld to, and this means the holes will not be tiny. At least some small patches will need to be well fitted so they can be butt welded to the old metal. Overlapping patches are easier to cut and weld, but any overlap must be sealed, else moisture trapped between the overlap may rust quickly.

Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Well here it goes. I'm wondering if this will be later posted in the "What not to do with your Ghia" thread. The product is "metal weld" by SystemThree

I decided not to wait for the weeks or months it may take to have a dry day around here and get to my sand blaster 30 miles away. I just wire brushed on both sides

Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:04 pm

NWGhiaGuy wrote: Anybody ever try a temporary fix with POR-15 mixed w/ kitty hair to thicken it and expand it over holes? Not ideal, to be sure, but it could be done at home with little money or special equipment. POR-15 is extremely flammable even when dry. Another guy posted about the small fire he had after doing a clutch tube repair

Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:55 pm

Interesting -- report on how it holds up. I would put some rust bullet on the top -- doesn't look as good as POR but it does strengthen the metal some.

Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 am

What is "Rust bullet"?

Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:19 pm

I think POR & Rust Bullet are both polyurethane coatings that cure better/faster with high humidity. There may be other components in them that are different, but generally POR is not considered very user friendly. That is, if not prepped and applied right it might fail. They both have a reputation for taking 2 weeks to wear away if you get them on your skin. Regular paint thinner seems to remove them before they dry, but might ruin the adhesion if used on metal before painting.

Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:21 pm

Just applied POR to the passenger side. Now that I know th product a bit better. I think the best plan would have been to use POR and then "metal Weld". POR penetrates better and Metal Weld offers strengthening and more sealing. I will use metal weld over the POR on the passenger side with fiberglass in the metal weld to cover and plug the larger openings. It is all an experiment really. The only real solution is to replace the pans and that is inevitable unless I crash and waste the car.

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:36 am

Stonesrock wrote: Just applied POR to the passenger side. Now that I know th product a bit better. I think the best plan would have been to use POR and then "metal Weld". POR penetrates better and Metal Weld offers strengthening and more sealing. I will use metal weld over the POR on the passenger side with fiberglass in the metal weld to cover and plug the larger openings. It is all an experiment really. The only real solution is to replace the pans and that is inevitable unless I crash and waste the car.

You may want to consider using JB Weld stick putty. They sell it in home depot. It comes in a stick. You slice off what you want and knead it like dough. You can then fill those small holes. It super strong and hardens in five minutes.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:09 am

Bobnotch wrote: NWGhiaGuy wrote: Anybody ever try a temporary fix with POR-15 mixed w/ kitty hair to thicken it and expand it over holes? Not ideal, to be sure, but it could be done at home with little money or special equipment.

Looking at the size and amount of holes the OP has, I'd just fill them in with tar, and call it good for a while. That way he could save some money up for replacement sections, and keep the water out. But I've tried what you're asking about on the load floor of a Squareback before. It lasted all of 1 year, before the POR 15 started to seperate and peel off the floor, and that was a car that didn't see winter use. :shock: I don't use Por 15 for anything any more, as it just doesn't work, and has cost me time and money in the long run. :evil:

Bob, what do you recommend to use instead?

Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:03 pm

I ended up using POR black paste/putty. I seems to be holding pretty well.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:52 am

Intersting thread, I'm sure I'll be going down the pan repair road eventually.

Wanted to add that I've used JB Weld to seal old tractor fuel tanks and sheet metal w/great success. I had an old 48 Ferguson TE-20 that leaked fuel around the seams of the tank. I sanded/stripped the seams down to shiny metal and applied JB Weld liberally. Those seams were holding leak free 12 yrs later when I sold the tractor. Started missing it before it got out the driveway but thats another story :D
Good prep is the key.

Dave