TheSamba.com :: View topic - help with engine running on two cylinders

Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 pm

Ok, gave the wd-40 trick a try and there was no discernible change in how it idled. I wasn't sure how much to spray but it felt like a lot. I swapped the plug wires for #1 and #2. I had spark on both prior but decided to try it anyway. No change there. Pulled #1 and #2 spark plugs just to make sure I didn't have a dud in either and they both checked out. I have no idea if this thing sat without a carb or not so I guess a blockage could be a possibility. Any other tricks?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:14 pm

OK - lets go through this.

The carb is OK as far as you know - And this is a single carb, correct? Any idea what your idle speed is? Should be set around 850 or so RPMS. The engine runs reasonably well, but you are not getting heat on the right side - well maybe intermittently, right?

Now if you bring the RPMs up, does anything change? Like you start firing on the right side or doesnt it matter.

You said something about swapping distributors earlier. And it made an improvement or just that you have spark now at 1 and 2 and you didnt before? And you are SURE that the wires are on right. I think you swapped 1 and 2 and it didnt help or make a difference?

Going to throw this out to the experts - coil or condensor? Kind of doubting it, but getting stumped.

And after I read your results withe the WD-40 - yeah - if its not firing at all on that side, it probably wont make a difference anyway - sorry about that.

For the hell of it, I'd pop the carb off and run a wire or somethin down that side and see if it feels like you are hitting something - stranger things have happened.....

Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:35 am

Hey there,

Here's the time line so far. Bought the car 3 weeks ago and think its been sitting for 7 years or so. Not sure if anyone has tried to do much with it in that time but parts of it look like it's been worked on recently. There was no coil when I bought the car and my friend loaned me his Bosch coil. Once I figured out some weird wiring in the back and tested the coil I got a nice white/blue spark. With the distributor that was in it when I bought it I couldn't get any spark at the plugs. I tested each wire and there was 3nothing. I thought I had tested the condenser properly but maybe I didn't. Anyway, we switched the distributor to my friends spare on Monday and got spark right away. After fiddling with the timing we got it to start and run sporadically. Then it started up and ran rough but kept running. We didn't run it too long since it was bouncing around on the mounts pretty good. That's when we noticed cool air was only coming from the right side. We figured maybe a valve issue and popped off the valve cover and cranked the motor over by hand and everything looked fine in there. Really nice and clean in there actually. Double checked the plug order and spark at the wires. Pulled the plugs and checked spark at the plugs as well.

I fiddled with it Tuesday and it seemed to run slightly smoother I thought when I moved the distributor around but still only was getting intermittent warmish air from the right exhaust. Also when I try to accelerate the engine it bogs down and wants to quit. My friend is suspect in how good his spare distributor is and thought the advance could be messed up. My distributor had vacuum advance on it and his was within the distributor. Mechanical advance I think? Anyway, my plan was to see if there actually is a blockage in there. I guess anything is possible.

I haven't done anything with the carb so far and I'm not sure what the idle speed is set at.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:01 am

OK - Even if the mechanical advance doesnt work at all, the car should idle.
Your timeline was really helpful and doing the same thing when you post again is a great idea - we know what was or wasnt done and the history is important. Big difference in troubleshooting between a good running engine going south and one that has a lot of unknowns...

So now - its a different approach.
Any idea what the timing at idle is set at?
Do you have it firing on 1 when its supposed to? Not sure if it would even run, but are you maybe 180 degrees out? Take a look at that - determine when #1 should be firing and then check your plug wire orientation on the distributor.

FYI - the distributor gear could be in wrong, the coupler at the bottom of the distributor could be 180 degrees out, you could just have the plug wires on the distributor wrong. Any of these is a possible cause.

Maybe its this simple - would be nice.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 am

Read and follow these instructions:
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/eng_strt.htm

I suspect one of the right side plug wires is on the wrong cylinder. The above will actually walk you through wiring your spark plugs from scratch.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:21 am

I found an old car. 7 years parked. Single port, it
s not dual.
it is missing the coil
here is what one does with old cars (note the order)

here is my $5 VW fix page. the fiddlers doom.
YMMV
http://ac-vw.com/How_to_fix_it/no-tools-nobucks.html

Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:23 am

all the above advice is great, and you should make sure the dizzy and spark wires are properly oriented and timing is relatively close. Best to work from easiest/cheapest solution first then get to more complicated stuff. If all that checks out you're gonna have to start taking things apart. What kind of air cleaner was on the carb when you got it? Stock or one of those crappy aftermarket paper deals? Is the decklid vented? I ask because after 7 years sitting (was it outside?) rain, pollen, dirt, bird crap, etc etc could have worked its way into the intake, clogging it up. the intake could be rusted on the inside, I've seen lots of bugs purchased or drug out from a field with no filter on the cab, leaving the whole intake system open to the elements. If one side is indeed clogged, there's gonna be hell to pay when it un-clogs suddenly and a bunch of gunk gets sucked into your combustion chamber. Might wanna try the above posters idea of running a wire or coat hanger down that side just to see if there is a clog somewhere, or just disassmble the intake, take the carb and manifold off and clean it/ inspect it for damage, easier than dealing with damaged heads/pistons. I know you took a look at the valves but you might as well check the gaps and adjust them to make sure they're opening and closing on time as well. This is a tricky one....

Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:32 am

is this a , i want to fix my motor with no tune up post? really?

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 am

btw
the old school wd40 trick is near useless (see makers home page the tell you that)

they removed the butane part. ( about 5 years ago) {injuries, lib. ins. & EPA}

so, now wd40 works more like water when sprayed
yes, water can block the leak and stop lean.
but try carb cleaner with a fire extinguisher, near by. really.

in old days WD40 made good for test fuel. it fails that too. today.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:07 pm

Really? I have been mostly using starter fluid for the last couple years - but sometimes grab whatever is handy that wont eat paint. But I have some vintage WD-40 on the shelf, so it probably still works.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:07 pm

i do too, ( they seem to populate like old spark plugs)

but just so others don.t go to store and buy wd40 for instant start. well....

High voltage wires sets.or HT sets :
as the tuneup page says, on a running good motor
and in page 1 of the new Bosch wire set , change them 1 wire at at time.
or learn to time your motor. as cusser said.
and for sure learn where #1 really is. (just one time, and your good to go)

some Dizzy are at 5pm ( new stock motors, and seems rare here)

with bad planted dizzy gear, it can be any number of teeth off . <360deg.
on 009 dizzy the mark is not at 5pm

to learn this you only need to find True TDC one time and mark it.
1,4,3,2 in that order clockwise from true #1.

if the dizzy gear is off, it's not a big deal that is , if the vacuum canister dont
hit the fuel pump with perfect timing.... that be and issue. no? bump , bump , dang.

if 009 (no vac) you can time it with the gear off, away why you want.
with no bad effects except one little , bad thing,
you just moved the #3 retarded dizzy cam spot to the wrong cylinder.
oops
the devil really is in the details.

like mr. Hoover said (of Hoverbit fame) it's your car, and what facts apply to your car, that is you call, you decide what facts , help or hinder your progress. All we can do is state them.. Love that guy , he is so straight shooting.

Tue May 15, 2012 8:08 am

wd40 has no Butane, so dont use it.
they got sued in 1998 and lost the case ! RV explosion, using it.
then a few years later went to CO2 , CO2 don't burn. sorry,
then in 2009 and independent lab tested WD40 and it is clean of all butane/propane with the Mass-spectrum analyzer (hard data)
so, dont tell people to use WD40, unless it's older than about 2002.
i have 1 more long post with all the poof of that, with all links and lab reports. end rant.
see my other here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=462314&start=663

(my guess on cut over, )
is your WD40 can 10 years old, really? is the NOOB can that old? id bet not.

His car is identical to mine , despite him never stating what he is driving...
a stock 68.
it's not stock its a SP head with DOG HOUSE UPGRADE. (DOG MOD)
so there are no DP induction boots.
ok , air leaks.
top ways to do it, SAFETY FIRST , yeah?

1: THE SMOKE MACHINE (google it or Youtube it) 100% safe and effective.

2: use water , this may plug a tiny leak and change rpm , good luck with that ( never works for me) this text is in all the lawyer reviewed books.

3: Use instant start, carb cleaner or brake cleaner, in a spray can
and spray the bottom of the induction tube and the top. (RPM change?)
have a blanket and fire extinguisher near by and full PPE and googles/ gloves. be safe #3 has HIGH RISK FACTOR , mr, noob.

4: way 4 is the sonic vacuum leak detector, sorry , you must rent one.
they work great. (See SAE.org for more or the ASE books)

That is my contribution to leaks, you can pick the one , you like and the most safe or not, it's your call.
QOD:
way are you running old spark plugs.
do not reuse the 2 seals on the top of the left and right SP port heads.
they are aluminum crush washers, now is the time to get new ones.
id do that first. (the left rear 6mm nut is a PITA from H3LL)

last:
from time to time we get , catastrophic heat riser fails.
2 ways
way 1: it just clogs and never gets hot .so 1 or more cylinders just receives
raw liquid running gas and will never run right, as engine warms and the plenun never warms. for sure fails on hot motor.
way2: the heat riser fills with water, it freezes and the tube cracks then rusts
and the intake is breached. (1 post for that this year alone this forum)

That 40 year old induction pipe is most likely a POS. in fact i bought 4.
to find 1 good one, and all were bad, and all were impossible to fix.
that is, for less than new cost. My new veeDug clone induction sits 1/2" to the front
so my air cleaner dont fit. damn (im now , manufacturing my own intake manifold in desperation , makes me hate SP engines. sadly)

one guy , brilliant, replaced his left and right tubes (riser) to "AN-x" fittings and teflon lines
so he can clean that pesky riser and not cuss.

hope that helps you , in some small way,
put car spec in your signature, like 68T1. it really helps when asking questions.
even better ,post that, and the engine SN, the words on the front of carb.
30-pict-2 (right) and the back side of dizzy, 205M or 205T? or 009 or any of 100 other distributors stuff on yours. then we know what you got.

Tue May 15, 2012 8:27 am

now i will do the question direct ( what i call a FIELD FIND) Barn finds are vastly better. 8)
68T1 stock right with dog house mod, correct?

7 year old bug (dead), you never said what you did to bring it back.?
ever change oil.? and check for oil pressure?
set lash .006 on each TDC "firing" of each jug?
check compression? x4 100 is spec, 80 is min.
ever tune it up, (fresh wires,cap,rotor,points and condenser, spark plugs ) no?
get tank free of rust ,then filter (if present) and tank screen, and fuel pump
and carb clean.
then it might run and longer than a day.

just 1 funny example
on typical fuel pump
i pulled it and let it dry for 3 days, i then picked it up ( id never run one ) but i picked it up and tilted it over and the input port , poured, dry, water
fall of rust dust. like 1 teaspoon total. :roll: I should Utube it.

never run an old fuel pump, if the diaphragm cracks it pours gas to the
sump or the top of motor or both, and the car either catches fire,
or the oil thins to water, and the engine seizes.
do not ever trust that diaphram on any vw, keep it fresh ,or get an electric pump.

last, all new rubber gas lines now.
i wont mention brakes as they are really first. but you know that.....

tim68bug wrote: Hi there,

I was having an issue with spark previously. A friend of mine brought over a different distributor and that end is working fine now. This bug has been sitting for about 7 years. The engine fired right up but only appears to be running on cylinders 3 and 4. Plenty of hot exhaust coming from the left side pipe but just cool air coming from the right exhaust pipe. We checked spark on the wires going to those cylinders and pulled the plugs. Brand new plugs in each cylinder and gaped correctly. We pulled off the valve cover and cranked the engine by hand and just by looking at it while it's turning over all the valves appear to be working fine. There is no strange noise and it doesn't appear to having anything broken. Just appears to be not getting fuel to the right side cylinders and the plugs look clean like it's not burning. Is it possible to get a fuel blockage like that? Any other ideas? Thanks for your help.

by now its parked under the told oak tree, for the next guy , to save it.