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Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:31 pm

Ok so got my motor and trans and hopefully cooling system taken care of, so now I'm at the part that I'm dreading, going with ecotec and 091 what would be an inexpensive axle setup for my buggy. I'm guessing that the stuff I have off the swing axle trans I got when I bought the frame won't work on the 091 transmission?? And even if it does I already know that its not going to last.

So being on a budget due to buying everything else, any suggestions? I'm not exactly sure what I would need. So whatever you guys can suggest would help me out.

Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:56 pm

So youve already converted to irs? What size arms? The chromo axles work, but i have twisted the splines on them with less than 200hp when jumping. I have ran the same 300m axles for thousands of off road miles and the splines still look new. But one 300M will cost what 2 chromo will. What type cv you gonna run?

Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:29 pm

Quote: I'm guessing that the stuff I have off the swing axle trans I got when I bought the frame won't work on the 091 transmission??

not at all. the swing axles are in every way different from and incompatible with IRS.

there are 2 axles per side in an IRS car; drive axles and stub axles. Stub axles fit in the trailing arm. You will need Type 2 to Type 1 conversion stub axles

CVs for these stub axles and drive axles come in 2 types: Type 2 and Type 4. Type 2 means VW Bus. Type 4 was a short lived VW car. Bottom line: Type 4 CVs work at graeater angles than Type 1 or Type 2 CVs and can stand up to big power. Type 4 CVs were used on the Thing

Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:43 pm

Well you don't have to run IRS do you? I had that intended for this winter, I was going to hold off from changing to IRS rearend. That's why I'm looking for a setup that's going to get me on the road. There's not going to be a lot of jumping stress on the chassis this year.

Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:42 pm

And as far as cv I don't have the slightest idea. Vw field is all new to me. I just so happen to be jumping into it a little quickly . That's why I'm looking to you guys for opinions and help.

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:31 pm

You can run the swingaxle. It will bolt up etc, but the spider gears are going to hate you :evil: . They mite last a long time and then again they mite explode the first time you grab the turning brake. Bus tranny is the way to go, many options on the stub axles, conversion or thing axles and you can also modify type 1 stub axles. As far as the actual axles go it depends again on power and how much weight your vehicle has. lighter the vehicle the less stress on them. In our sandrails axles and type 2 CV's last, type 1 CV's don't, but they are an excellent fuse in the power train. They will break before anything else and they take 15min to change.

Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Ok let me explain exactly what's going on so you get a better idea. I bought it with a swingaxle trans which I dropped, and bought a 091 to go with the ecotec motor. So I have the bus trans which is what I want to use. However the rearend isn't IRS. So can I run the bus trans on the swing or do I have to convert to IRS?? That's why I was asking what cvs and axles and things to go with.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:52 am

Yes, in order to run your bus box it will need to be converted to irs rear suspension. Its better to do all at once, then to try to bolt the eco up to the swing axle, then convert later to irs.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:34 am

Ehh, figures my luck lol, well next question is what's the easiest cheapest route for converting. I really don't want to cut the rear off and find a IRS rearend if I don't have to do it that way. Obviously without knowing I had to do this now my funds are somewhat limited. I've been looking over the classifieds on here but just a little unsure what exactly I need. I'll try to post pics of my current frame status later on.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:13 pm

Cheapest route is change to a bus torsion,arms,axles,stub axles,hubs,etc... from an old donor bus.
That ecotec will still be capable of eating bus cvs and axles.
That 091 will have to have a 4-spider diff also, as the 2 spider in it will fail also.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:34 pm

it makes no sense to convert an 091 to swingaxle now, and convert it to IRS later. mucking around in a gearbox is a job for highly trainmed professionals who charge for their ervices.

do the homework: bus trans conversions, trailing arms and lifting the rear. three separate area of study.
make informed decisions based on that study

Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:00 pm

Yeah, my problem was that I'm rushing into this trying to have it ready by summer, and wasn't thinking and didn't have a full understanding going from what I had (a swingaxle trans and rearend) thinking I could just drop in a 091 and it would work. So now that I've realized I've kind of looked over a huge factor I guess that's what's next in line to do. So now I have to figure out what I need exactly to swap. Obviously I could spend a ton to beef up the rear and give a larger traveling suspension range. But as of now my goal isn't to be hitting jumps. It's mostly going to be on road with occasional dune visits. Down the road that's something I might look into doing.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:46 pm

I don't see an ecotech eating bus CV's. Ive seen 002's live behind hopped up 4.3L chevy V6's for a long time running standard bus CV's. And thats in a heavy rail getting abused. Iv'e seen 091's with 930 coversions living behind 400hp turbo subaru's. Again an ecotech isn't going to eat bus CV's and if it does the geometry is wrong and your running to much angle.

As far as converting over to IRS. All you need to do is weld in IRS pockets, run IRS swingplates, axles and arms. Stick with the short swingaxle torsion bars and torsion caps. Welding in the IRS pockets at the right angle is going to be the hard part, you don't need to cut out the whole rearend and replace it. Don't forget your adapter plate and bug to bus tranny mounts and shift linkage adapter. A lot of parts and such but you will be happy in the end when its all set up and running.

Also I would stay away from a bus rear end. Bus rear ends are too heavy and too stiff, better to stick with a bug rear end and convert the stub axles to bus (cheaper) or to 930 CV's (spendy). You don't see the high power Subys or V6 guys running bus rear ends. They run bus trannies with bug rearends. Well unless they are running custom rearends with mendolla transmissions, but thats a whole different subject.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:13 pm

Ok thank you for the simplistic broken down answer. I actually talked with someone at phils bug shack today about the adapter, they gave me a price of $350 with the flywheel. So after I get the rear setup for the trans I will be ordering that. Now the other thing I was a little confused on, was the 10 degree mount. Do you need that in a buggy? Or only something like a baja? Didn't know if you need it for it to line up for shifted linkage, or if it was just for issues with a baja where you have to cut out the flooring or whatever.

I'm going to try and search down parts and get going on the rear this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

But thanks again!!!

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:21 pm

I don't have any exp with the 10 degree mount. In a rail its easier to use the shift adapter. In a baja where you don't want to do a bunch of cutting, I think the 10 degree mount would work.

After a fair bit of adjusting I got my shifting in the rail real smooth and precise, and thats with a Scat quick shifter and the four inch shift coupler,
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1372

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Ok well good, that should make things easier, I appreciate you lending your knowledge lol. This is definitely something that I'm learning as I go, and rather than going slow and taking my time I'm taking the speed course and throwing the ecotec in it.

Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:56 pm

Yeah, If I didn't already have so much money invested in my VW, I could have thrown an eco tech in. I'm still not convinced on the what some people say they weigh over a VW, and in a rail even 100lbs is a lot. And with the next step I'm taking in my VW engine it would take more than a stock eco tech to compete. BUT I already have the carbs and stroker kit etc. Just putting in a larger cam and matching heads. I don't like chevys and I'm sure thats part of it too. IDK each to there own, I hope it works for you.

And thank you for the thanks. I've been around sand rails my whole life and when I built my first one, my dad was there every step of the way telling me what works and what doesn't. Made it a lot easier and I bought the right parts the first time. Anything I can do to help someone else save time and money and do it right the first time and not get discouraged I'm in. That and well I get a lot of help from Samba myself so its all good. :D

Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:22 pm

Well I almost wonder for the price if something like this http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1260588
Would be a better option because for the price I shouldn't have to worry about getting jigs and having to do a bunch of changing out, I could just cut and drop the rear then weld up the new setup. Would it be better that route because of the price? Or still just weld up pockets and run the IRS spring plates and whatever the bar that connects to axle and torsion bar.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:20 am

The only difference between the swingaxle you have now and that IRS rear end is the IRS pockets and swingarms. Just get the pockets real close and you should be good I would imagine. Just seems it would be harder to weld in the complete rearend vs a couple pockets.

Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:09 am

Thats probably what the PO of my rail thought while he was getting wasted and welding in the pockets wrong. Make sure you tack them and then check angles (camber/toe) that are inherant before you weld them in good.