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Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:00 pm

so heres the story of a very sad little 69 sqr. my loving girl friend at the time decided, after i lost my 64 bettle, and sold my 71 super, and gave my brother back his 70 sqr, it was time for a new car project. we found this square back and bought it cheap. and boy did it need work. i've had the poor thing sitting in my moms garage for 7 long years, then drug it from california to utah. it sat on the side yard at my buddy's house for another two years. this last week, he decided it was time for it to be center stage so to speak. so here she stands.

now after some time there got to be a few "bumps" on it. but, the pan is solid and rust free, including the battery tray. i now get to spend the summer, and alot of money, into getting it road worthy. oh btw, it hasnt been on the road registered since 1985 from calli. going to use all my goodies i've stored now to make it my dd, which around here, is only about 15miles round trip a day, or less. more pics to come as i get it torn apart.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:06 am

Can't wait to see the progress!! And I would KILL to have started out with solid pans and rust free. Lol.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:31 am

The Secret is to get it running/driving in 10 weeks, not tear it All apart for 10 years.

Pull just the driver's front fender to beat it back into shape. Bolt it back on and you can mount/wire up your headlights.

Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:41 am

Mike Fisher wrote: The Secret is to get it running/driving in 10 weeks, not tear it All apart for 10 years.

10 weeks? Lol. Ill be lucky to have mine up and rolling in 10 months. But I planned for a year.

So far one engine guy said it would be easier to just buy a new one...another guy said that I didn't want to pay his shop the money they charged to do it (he just shut down his personal and went to work for them- I appreciate his honesty at least) Ugh..anyways...yeah...more like 10 months. Lol

Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:53 am

problem being that its not going to be as easy as just pulling the dent from the front fender. im going to do a complete color change. but i dont think i need to do a whole body off, so theres very little work that acctually needs done. i have a whole other harness i pulled for this one if its too bad. all i need is a trans and a motor really. pic doesnt show it but the windshield is cracked and utah wont allow it to stay that way.

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:25 pm

so im building the motor for this car and im trying to figure out what size really. i was thinking of the 92mm cyl and a 74mm crank. i have duel web's for fuel delivery, but just want a little something more than stock but not insane wild. which would be better to use, the 92 or the 90's? and what about the "china" cylinders? has anyone used them and had good or bad with them? i have everything to do just a 1600 but thats not what i want right now. and im not in much of a mood to do it twice. suggestions?

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:29 pm

1776cc is a simple upgrade to build and if tuned/built properly, will give a noticeable increase in grunt...

Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:31 pm

You can not go wrong with a type 4 2L :wink:

Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:54 pm

You also can't go wrong with stock engine and stock FI.

Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Tram wrote: You also can't go wrong with stock engine and stock FI. though that may be true, my car wasnt factory f/i. its a carbed car from Vw. and i really am not looking into doing a massive swap on a t4 motor, that will be saved for my fasty :wink: .

Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:49 pm

ok

-carb from factory on a 70'?
your not the original owner
so why would you think it came carbed from VW, is there paper work

-so the car has no motor or trans??

-you speak of tons of money to get it a daily driver?
as it sits your in it for an engine and trans(if it Does Not Have Them..we need more pics)
a different fender (or bang it out and make it usable)
tires
brake calipers and cylinders probably can be cleaned and used(most rears can atleast)
headlights
*you said "If" the wiring is bad... does it have relays and such under the seat? check the panel in the rear driver side for a computer..
have you taken a Good look at the harness to Really know what your looking at(either good, burnt, or cut up by PO)
hows the ignition switch?
is it a 4 spd or Auto?
how does the gas tank look? did it or does it still have gas in it?

a T4 motor is an EASY Swap.. all you need really is a Plastic air boot from a squareback 411/412 and modify or change the engine mount kinda
Quote: You can not go wrong with a type 4 2L
Altho i agree with that, but the T4 bus 2.0 only put out 67bhp with the 99.4 ft lbs
whereas the stock F.I. 411 1700 put out 18 more horse than that at the same ft lbs(dual carbed 13 more)(T3/T4 F.I. only slightly different

never dealt with 4 spd 411 but 003 auto is Exactly the same
YES the 2L is a "bigger" engine but the 1700 Way Better

a 1776 is an easy and good solid upgrade(ported heads and valve job make it even more reliable
carbed easy
F.I. uses Stock T3 F.I. with a slight boost in fuel pressure.
if you wanted to go big and reliable.. Regular 2110.. probably carbed or Megesquirt

I Like my Fuel Injection and to be honest i have never had a problem with it
usually ignition or such

Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:57 pm

Sqrbckguy38 wrote: Tram wrote: You also can't go wrong with stock engine and stock FI. though that may be true, my car wasnt factory f/i. its a carbed car from Vw. and i really am not looking into doing a massive swap on a t4 motor, that will be saved for my fasty :wink: .

'69 with bullet turn signals was a factory fuel injected car.

Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:54 pm

my 69 doesnt have injection and never has. there are no relays for efi. i am the "2nd" owner, and my 70 fasty was efi, but poorly converted to stock carbs. this square has no motor, and no trans or axles. the interior is not in great shape, needs carpet and headliner. when i bought this car, it had the motor and trans in it, with a complete carbed setup, with all the stock pieces. it was never changed from efi. i pulled the motor out and put it in my fasty to drive.
and i've been checking on parts, just to build a good motor i seam to be in it almost 1k. it will need brakes done but seams not too bad. the dent in the fender has been pulled already and smoothed. i have the rims and tires from my fasty that are going on it.
the wiring harness in the car is kinda old and some hack job of a oil temp and "guageX" (its missing from the bezel) were wired in with some yellow wire so as i delve further into it im just finding more that needs to be repaired. luckily i have the headlights and buckets, took them out years ago.
i know what im looking at as i had to rewire my 70 when the coil caught fire and smoked the harness. there is no comp in the back panel like my fasty had. rewiring my 70 was why i decided to put efi back in it. i love the t3 f/i. i gave my brother my 1835 out of one of my cars to put in his 70sqr and it had the whole stock f/i opn that motor with a cam even.
i mearly just asked if anyone has any experience with the chinesse pistons. they seam to be a cheap alternate to the very expensive mahle piston kits. i have carbs to put on my car when a motor is built, its a set of 40 webbers. but i want a motor of good size that these carbs wont be overkill, or insufficient.

Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:16 pm

I'm telling you that bullets on a '68/69 were a factory signal that this was originally an injected car, much as bullets on a '64/'65 were a factory signal that it was a '1500N' car.

Either somebody changed fenders, or somebody yanked FI complete and sold it when they switched to carbs.

If you want carbs, that's your deal. I don't have a problem with it.

Check the engine number in your Fastback- the engine that came from this car. What's the engine number? if it starts with a "U", it's an injected engine. If it starts with an "X", it's a California injected engine.

Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:01 am

Im no expert but I thought there was a special spot for the ecu in injected cars ???

you should just megasquirt :roll: well of course im going to say that :wink:

looks like a fun project mate get in there and get your hands dirty..... thats what I like to see \:D/

would love some more pics though

Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:05 am

yup, injected car, tram has been trying to get me to switch my square back to injected...lol..... as for a motor, i'd go 1776, and be done with it, thats what i have in mine with 34 ICT webers, and its a rocket off the line, and for mileage first couple of tanks were at 28.5 MPG, but the latest tank is at approx 35 MPG

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:51 am

Tram wrote: I'm telling you that bullets on a '68/69 were a factory signal that this was originally an injected car, much as bullets on a '64/'65 were a factory signal that it was a '1500N' car.

Either somebody changed fenders, or somebody yanked FI complete and sold it when they switched to carbs.

If you want carbs, that's your deal. I don't have a problem with it.

Check the engine number in your Fastback- the engine that came from this car. What's the engine number? if it starts with a "U", it's an injected engine. If it starts with an "X", it's a California injected engine.

Not to argue, but I have had the ownership of two 69 Squarebacks with bullet signals and dual carbs, that were purchased by the OG owner via that program (can't remember the name) where you purchased the car in the U.S., picked up in Germany, used for a tour of Europe and then shipped back to U.S. I swear that they were original with dual solex's.

Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:59 am

peaceful warrior wrote: Tram wrote: I'm telling you that bullets on a '68/69 were a factory signal that this was originally an injected car, much as bullets on a '64/'65 were a factory signal that it was a '1500N' car.

Either somebody changed fenders, or somebody yanked FI complete and sold it when they switched to carbs.

If you want carbs, that's your deal. I don't have a problem with it.

Check the engine number in your Fastback- the engine that came from this car. What's the engine number? if it starts with a "U", it's an injected engine. If it starts with an "X", it's a California injected engine.

Not to argue, but I have had the ownership of two 69 Squarebacks with bullet signals and dual carbs, that were purchased by the OG owner via that program (can't remember the name) where you purchased the car in the U.S., picked up in Germany, used for a tour of Europe and then shipped back to U.S. I swear that they were original with dual solex's.

I didn't make the rules. I'm just telling you what the factory says. On U.S. Spec cars, the FI met or exceeded the very early '68/'69 emissions standards, the bullet signals and new for '68 diffusers in the rear tail lenses fulfilled the new mandate for side marker lights, and the high back seats and three point belts as well as the front bumper impact tube fulfilled the new crash test requirements, all of which came into effect in '68. Carbed engines were not optional for USA, nor were lowbacks, lap belts, or wrap around signals. in fact, I think it was all of North America if I recall correctly.

Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:01 pm

Tram wrote: peaceful warrior wrote: Tram wrote: I'm telling you that bullets on a '68/69 were a factory signal that this was originally an injected car, much as bullets on a '64/'65 were a factory signal that it was a '1500N' car.

Either somebody changed fenders, or somebody yanked FI complete and sold it when they switched to carbs.

If you want carbs, that's your deal. I don't have a problem with it.

Check the engine number in your Fastback- the engine that came from this car. What's the engine number? if it starts with a "U", it's an injected engine. If it starts with an "X", it's a California injected engine.

Not to argue, but I have had the ownership of two 69 Squarebacks with bullet signals and dual carbs, that were purchased by the OG owner via that program (can't remember the name) where you purchased the car in the U.S., picked up in Germany, used for a tour of Europe and then shipped back to U.S. I swear that they were original with dual solex's.

I didn't make the rules. I'm just telling you what the factory says. On U.S. Spec cars, the FI met or exceeded the very early '68/'69 emissions standards, the bullet signals and new for '68 diffusers in the rear tail lenses fulfilled the new mandate for side marker lights, and the high back seats and three point belts as well as the front bumper impact tube fulfilled the new crash test requirements, all of which came into effect in '68. Carbed engines were not optional for USA, nor were lowbacks, lap belts, or wrap around signals. in fact, I think it was all of North America if I recall correctly.

Agreed George, I was just pointing out the exception to the rule. :wink:
The last 68 I had did have FI, and everything else as you mentioned. The 69 I last had, did not have the FI, but I believe it was changed over by the PO.

Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:51 pm

Sqrbckguy38 wrote: my 69 doesnt have injection and never has. there are no relays for efi. i am the "2nd" owner, and my 70 fasty was efi, but poorly converted to stock carbs. this square has no motor, and no trans or axles. the interior is not in great shape, needs carpet and headliner. when i bought this car, it had the motor and trans in it, with a complete carbed setup, with all the stock pieces. it was never changed from efi. i pulled the motor out and put it in my fasty to drive.
and i've been checking on parts, just to build a good motor i seam to be in it almost 1k. it will need brakes done but seams not too bad. the dent in the fender has been pulled already and smoothed. i have the rims and tires from my fasty that are going on it.
the wiring harness in the car is kinda old and some hack job of a oil temp and "guageX" (its missing from the bezel) were wired in with some yellow wire so as i delve further into it im just finding more that needs to be repaired. luckily i have the headlights and buckets, took them out years ago.
i know what im looking at as i had to rewire my 70 when the coil caught fire and smoked the harness. there is no comp in the back panel like my fasty had. rewiring my 70 was why i decided to put efi back in it. i love the t3 f/i. i gave my brother my 1835 out of one of my cars to put in his 70sqr and it had the whole stock f/i opn that motor with a cam even.
i mearly just asked if anyone has any experience with the chinesse pistons. they seam to be a cheap alternate to the very expensive mahle piston kits. i have carbs to put on my car when a motor is built, its a set of 40 webbers. but i want a motor of good size that these carbs wont be overkill, or insufficient.

Build it how you want. You might want to spend a little time in the engine forum, to find out what a good combo that will work with those carbs. A 1776 is a good choice, but might be "over carbed". A 2110 might be just right (Toby had 1 in his Square for years), and will give you the power and reliability you want, and not be over carbed. Of course Brian Fye can jet almost any carb to a specific engine size too. :wink: I guess it really boils down to what you want, since it's your dollars being spent. :D