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Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:01 pm

Hello everyone, i am not trying so start anything but was hoping to get some question answered about a super beetle conversion. Anyway i have a 71 super beetle that i would like to convert and use for reenacting. My questions are. First i found the repro split dashboard, i am assuming Volkswagen changed the dash mounting holes over time but are the original beetle dashs vs the super beetle dashes the same size? Second i was looking at the split window and saw the steel not fiberglass rear window panel. Has anyone had experience with these? And lastly the front suspension are struts and the rears are torsion bars how could i raise the ground clearence? Any info and advice for this project would be great since i am new to VWs. Thanks and please keep it positive! Dustin

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:18 pm

I'm positive that a Super will make a really bad fake KDF. The front has the wrong look and is too curvy in the nose.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:28 pm

Glenn wrote: I'm positive that a Super will make a really bad fake KDF. The front has the wrong look and is too curvy in the nose. what years would you recommand to start with? Cause I am not trying to make a perfect match just something what looks like one so I can take to reenactment events and off road

Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:44 pm

First off a Standard Beetle would be a better starting point. Then the older the close to original.

Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:17 pm

my45mutt wrote: what years would you recommand to start with? Cause I am not trying to make a perfect match just something what looks like one so I can take to reenactment events and off road

no offense but i wouldn't attempt to do this if i were you. you pretty much ruin an early beetle for something that isn't remotely passable even at 100 yards.

drive and enjoy your super beetle as is and find a nice chinese made bmw motorcycle clone and rework it instead. that will be far closer to an original than any kdf wannabe you attempt, no offense.

but to answer your original question....you want something that people won't laugh at you behind your back with? start with an oval. front windshield height is key. any thing other than a smaller front windshield car will give you away at first glance. rework the beam to look like a kubel beam. barn door bus front beam components, if you can find them, are best. run down some 16in rims, 15's are a dead give away for a farbe bucket. find a barn door bus transmission for reduction gears out back. 36'er motor trimmed up to look like a 25hp, and kdf looking exhaust is a must. and the obvious stuff....rework the dash, seats, doors, rear deck lid, rear window, etc etc....study plenty of pictures of originals and do it right and you'd have a vehicle that would fool about 85% of the reenactors when you'd be driving by. anything less and people will be talking about it behind your back at events.

lastly, you might want to check what the rules of the reenacting unit you belong to say about such clones.

i know you said stay positive in this thread, and honestly i am being so...it's just a bunch of work to get something remotely passable as a kdf and imo i think a chinese clone bmw motorcycle would make for a better vehicle to go hauling around the woods in...not to mention the bmw clones are so much easier to retrofit to look like a period correct bmw.

my .02

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:28 am

It is a popular misconception that the beetle didn't change over the years. In fact every single body panel inside and out differs between the wartime KdF Wagen and the Superbeetle. The difference is not just in the details like the dash or the rear window, it's actually every square inch of the body... well maybe the top of the roof. I cannot think of any other part that may be similar. The only beetle body that can be made to look remotely like a KdF one is up to mid '55. Even then you'll have to fabricate a lot of stuff to look convincing.

May I suggest to consider building a Kubelwagen instead? There are several threads right here where people have built excellent looking replicas. The body parts are far easier to replicate and there is a lot of stuff being reproduced commercially. This would be perfect for reenactments.

Please don't take this as a discouragement, just giving you some background information. Just like the poster above said, the last thing you want is people laughing at you behind you back.

Real '43 KdF Wagen

Superbeetle

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:08 am

Undis wrote:
May I suggest to consider building a Kubelwagen instead? There are several threads right here where people have built excellent looking replicas. The body parts are far easier to replicate and there is a lot of stuff being reproduced commercially. This would be perfect for reenactments.

gonna have to disagree with you on this....

you go to a reenactment and there's generally at least 1 real kubel running around, sometimes more. you put a copy right up against it and no matter how much you think you got it right it's not going to pass for anything remotely close to an original when side by side with the real deal.

now you can get it close, but again it is going to take some serious work, a lot of research, hunting down a bunch of early parts, etc. this guy really went the extra mile and got it really close:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=140035&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

however there's still dead giveaways like his front beam, transmission, tires, motor, etc....

Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Undis wrote: It is a popular misconception that the beetle didn't change over the years. In fact every single body panel inside and out differs between the wartime KdF Wagen and the Superbeetle. The difference is not just in the details like the dash or the rear window, it's actually every square inch of the body... well maybe the top of the roof. I cannot think of any other part that may be similar.

The clamping strip for the hood & decklid seal is the same on KDF & Super Beetle :lol:

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:40 am

a1steaksauce wrote:

gonna have to disagree with you on this....

you go to a reenactment and there's generally at least 1 real kubel running around, sometimes more. you put a copy right up against it and no matter how much you think you got it right it's not going to pass for anything remotely close to an original when side by side with the real deal.

You are absolutely right on that, but my perception is that OP does not have a very high threshold of originality in mind. If he had, he wouldn't be asking if a Superbeetle can be made to look like a KdF Wagen. Considering what I think are his intentions, I suggested to look into the option of making a Kubel lookalike rather than a wartime beetle. Still it would take excellent body skills and plenty of cash to achieve reasonable result. Wouldn't fool anyone, but it would be a fun car to have nonetheless. Hard to say how it would go down at reenactment meetings, again it depends what kind if folk roll up in what kind of vehicles.

Just to get back to OP's question - a Superbeetle body would be just wrong on so many levels to use as base for a KdF lookalike. You would need to change so much... well actually everything.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:44 am

RareAir wrote:
The clamping strip for the hood & decklid seal is the same on KDF & Super Beetle :lol:

Here's the solution then - just get the Superbeetle clamping strips and build a KdF Beetle around them :twisted:

Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:03 am

Undis wrote:
You are absolutely right on that, but my perception is that OP does not have a very high threshold of originality in mind. If he had, he wouldn't be asking if a Superbeetle can be made to look like a KdF Wagen. Considering what I think are his intentions, I suggested to look into the option of making a Kubel lookalike rather than a wartime beetle. Still it would take excellent body skills and plenty of cash to achieve reasonable result. Wouldn't fool anyone, but it would be a fun car to have nonetheless.

good point.

and while there are good clones out there...the czech OT's done up to look like a 251 is a prime example...there's many man hours into them and a bunch of cash.

Undis wrote: Hard to say how it would go down at reenactment events, again it depends what kind if folk roll up in what kind of vehicles.

honestly you'd be surprised what comes out for reenactment events, especially public displays....i know i was. hop on youtube and search "rockford reenactment" or "ft knox reenactment" and you'll see plenty of war vintage vw's among other german wartime vehicles running around.

generally speaking vw clones that show up at reenactments aren't very well received. more so when there's originals running around.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:23 pm

They're re-enacting, not going back and fighting the actual war. If the car looks right from 50 yards away, that's good enough.

But having said that, I agree that the Kubel is more appropriate than the sedan. There were 55,000 tubs built, and they were used in every theater the Germans fought in. The Beetle command cars were extremely rare, with just a few hundred built, so it's much more probable that the unit you're representing had at least a few tubs and no sedans.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Blue Baron wrote: They're re-enacting, If the car looks right from 50 yards away, that's good enough.

many a reenactor that owns original vehicles would disagree with you there. :lol:

agree to disagree? yup. 8)

Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:14 am

The fact that you post in a vintage VW forum would indicate you are an authenticity freak like me. But I've been to re-enactments and have seen the equipment that shows up. Some of it is very good and some of it is repurposed American vehicles like you see in old war movies.

The truth about re-enactments is that everyone wants to play the "good guys," so there's usually a large American contingent vs. a handful of Axis. The U.S. equipment is superbly authentic. But they need to fight somebody, and since there are not that many "bad guys" and genuine German rolling stock is expensive, it often requires the use of replica vehicles. So in many cases close enough is good enough if you want any opposing force at all.

But granted, it can be different from region to region, and your area may have more "krauts."

Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:08 pm

Blue Baron wrote: The fact that you post in a vintage VW forum would indicate you are an authenticity freak like me. But I've been to re-enactments and have seen the equipment that shows up. Some of it is very good and some of it is repurposed American vehicles like you see in old war movies.

i am an authenticity freak like you, but it's limited to very early vw's, more so to the war vintage years. my later vw stuff is all modified one way or another.

Blue Baron wrote: The truth about re-enactments is that everyone wants to play the "good guys," so there's usually a large American contingent vs. a handful of Axis. The U.S. equipment is superbly authentic. But they need to fight somebody, and since there are not that many "bad guys" and genuine German rolling stock is expensive, it often requires the use of replica vehicles. So in many cases close enough is good enough if you want any opposing force at all.

the truth about reenactments is that you don't need a vehicle to take part in it. 90% of reenactors don't own any war production vehicles, authentic or farbe.

you are correct, more allies than axis, always. but the level of equipment in correct condition is debatable. :lol: jeeps are always a hodge podge of parts and often loaded with bondo...but any US heavy equipment is first rate. i haven't seen a poorly done US half track, duece and a half, sherman, stewart, etc at any public display.

Blue Baron wrote: But granted, it can be different from region to region, and your area may have more "krauts."

this is most true. there's probably more German equipment in the midwest than anywhere else in the country. you go to a public battle in Rockford IL, Jefferson Barracks MO, or look back on the video of the events at Ft Knox KY and you'll see plenty. heck i recommend to anyone wanting to see early stuff, german or US to check out those events.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:48 am

Looks like we have scared the OP away :oops:

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:41 am

Or have given him his answer.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:03 pm

nope you havent scared me away one bit, I have been knee deep in my project since this post. There are tons of average reenactors on a budget building cheaper priced reeactment vehicles what look close. As you said get a bmw copy or known as chang jiang 750. That isnt an original and it takes some decent work to get it done but its worth it. People try to pass CJ2As what are converted to look like ww2 jeeps all the time but it makes them happy and they use them. I myself a ASE Certified Master Technician and have built several vehicles ground up just would like to make this one for fun. I think this beetle is decent as is but not what I would drive. What I was really looking for was info on what people have done before. I know that some of you are Stitch nazis and take the Beetle hobby seriously but I want the same enjoyment as you have when you drive yours, only difference is my bug looks different. Here is my fully restored 45 Willys MB for proof of my work. WORK DOESNT BOTHER ME.

Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:05 pm

What I would Like to know For Starters , is has anyone used the Glass Action Split window kit

Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:38 am

my45mutt wrote: What I would Like to know For Starters , is has anyone used the Glass Action Split window kit

Most people in the "Forum Index -> Beetle - Split-Window/1938-53 VWs" have real splits. I think you might find more information on the other forums to make a replica.