TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:15 am

Hi All,

I need to fix a small rust hole just ahead of the rear wheel and I do not have a welder at hand.

I know this may be a bit of a heresy issue here, but I'll ask it anyway. To join two pieces of metal that are not going to be under considerable stress, what are the advantages of welding versus glueing/gluing? or in other words, why should I go through the hassle of finding a welder, and buying/renting it when I could just glue it?

A few years ago someone posted here some pics of a similar repair done with a 3M metal glue that seemed quite ok for the job, but I could not find it again. Anyone knows?

TIA
Ant

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:24 am

If it's really a low-stress situation and you use the proper glue I see no problem.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:27 am

The problem with what you're trying to do is you can't butt the piece in. The base metal has to be 100% rust free so you need to blast it for proper adhesion. Besides that, you will have a lump tat will take a gallon of filler to smooth out. Don't hack it...wait to fix it right or leave it be. It is never a good idea to make a metal sandwich. Steel sweats and you will rot between the 2 panels.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:14 am

It would help a lot if we could see a photo. Question is how big a spot - how much rust... Welding of course is by far the best option...

Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:31 am

Here is the rust hole:

Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:41 am

I'm no body man but that looks to me like a situation where you could remove the rust, treat the metal to prevent more rust, and then fill the holes and smooth it out with a small amount of bondo.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:07 am

IMHO, on rust, you need to cut it all out and then see what you have left.

If you don't have a welder, having a pro-welder make a patch and weld it in (after you've removed the metal) is not going to be a fortune. Maybe $40-ish. That's what I'd recommend.

Then you'd want to coat it with paint. Preferably epoxy primer, but anything is better than leaving metal exposed.

Mark

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:18 am

I wouldn't glue in a piece. I think you may have bigger problems than that hole. If that is the rocker we are looking at, it was originally smooth. Someone has done some remedial work there, then put on a coat of gravel guard, and then a coat of paint. I suspect that this was done to address rust issues, so I would assume that there is more lurking underneath. I would dig deeper for surprises.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:37 am

There's a thousand ways to fix that. At very least I'd POR15 the area (inside+out if you can) after a good wire brushing/sanding. I'm certainly no body man but I think a lot of people would Body Filler that size of a hole. It'll shrink + crack in a few years though I bet. New metal would be best course of.

By the looks of the surrounding paint you have a rust can-of-worms there. How much time + money you have plays a great part in the ways to tackle it. Search and read in the body/paint section. Lots of stories there.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:38 am

Westfabulous wrote: I wouldn't glue in a piece. I think you may have bigger problems than that hole. If that is the rocker we are looking at, it was originally smooth. Someone has done some remedial work there, then put on a coat of gravel guard, and then a coat of paint. I suspect that this was done to address rust issues, so I would assume that there is more lurking underneath. I would dig deeper for surprises.

You think that's gravel guard? I hope; I thought it was rust pits...

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:38 am

Cut and weld for sure. I bet the damage extends a inch or more around the hole. Trust me....

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:43 am

ccpalmer wrote: Westfabulous wrote: I wouldn't glue in a piece. I think you may have bigger problems than that hole. If that is the rocker we are looking at, it was originally smooth. Someone has done some remedial work there, then put on a coat of gravel guard, and then a coat of paint. I suspect that this was done to address rust issues, so I would assume that there is more lurking underneath. I would dig deeper for surprises.

You think that's gravel guard? I hope; I thought it was rust pits...

The yellow areas look like German gravel guard that has been painted. That is exactly the way it delaminates when rust gets in there. I guess the only way to know for sure is to peel some back. I think that a PO tried to bury some rust in the past.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:46 am

Quote: I think that a PO tried to bury some rust in the past.

I think so too and that rust area is a lot larger than you think.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:34 am

SGKent wrote: Quote: I think that a PO tried to bury some rust in the past.

I think so too and that rust area is a lot larger than you think.
X3, there's evil lurking beneath the rock guard, you'll find plenty of pinholes once it's ground off.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:22 am

Westfabulous wrote: ccpalmer wrote: Westfabulous wrote: I wouldn't glue in a piece. I think you may have bigger problems than that hole. If that is the rocker we are looking at, it was originally smooth. Someone has done some remedial work there, then put on a coat of gravel guard, and then a coat of paint. I suspect that this was done to address rust issues, so I would assume that there is more lurking underneath. I would dig deeper for surprises.

You think that's gravel guard? I hope; I thought it was rust pits...

The yellow areas look like German gravel guard that has been painted. That is exactly the way it delaminates when rust gets in there. I guess the only way to know for sure is to peel some back. I think that a PO tried to bury some rust in the past.

Just noticed something else. Regarding my comment above, it looks like this particular rust spot developed from some sort of external intrusion into the rocker, as seen by the inward dent and the fracturing of the rock guard all around it. I suspect that this was left untreated for some time, and thus the rust. IF you get lucky, this might be somewhat localized, but I always worry when someone gets out the gravel guard where none had been previously. I would get a scraper and start peeling it back; see what lies underneath.

Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:24 am

Thanks for all your points of view, guys.

The next stage will be the wire wheel until I only see the metal. We'll see then where we go next.

I'll keep you updated. :D

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:02 pm

Hi you can use one of these.

http://www.automedia.com/Filler_Finder/res20020301ff/1

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:41 pm

Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:04 pm

pep242 wrote:

if you were closer, i would kick you square in the beanbag

if i may have 5 minutes of your time, please watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di_OpQjaDnI&feature=player_detailpage

that is the reason that hackjob repairs should be avoided. do it once, do it right or sell the thing to someone who can

Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:30 pm

I think what you do should depend on your long term vision for your bus. If you are seeing a lot of winter salt and the bus is going to die in five years no matter how you fix this hole, then just cover it up with fiberglass (or fill with bondo) and move on. If there is a lot of other hidden rust that is about to show its ugly face and you cut out and replace this one section, you have just wasted a lot of your time and have accomplished almost nothing.