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Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:42 am

Alright guys, I recently finished a 1600 DP for my daily driver 1970 bug. This is the first engine build I've ever done and it's a very simple engine. A stock 1600 with dual Kadrons, 009 (soon to be replaced by a 019), and a tri mil euro exhaust. I'll probably add 1.4x ratio rockers for a little more oomph. Nothing special, just a "stock plus" engine that was easy to assemble and tune for my first build.

I took this car down the 1/8th mile last week and I'm hooked. I want to build a dedicated drag car with more power but nothing crazy. There is a very solid 68 for sale up the street from me that would need some TLC to get back on the road. The plan is to buy it, get it road worthy, and build an engine to run it down the track.

I already have the internals for a 69mm stroke engine. I do not want to machine my case for larger P&C's due to wait time at the local machine shop. Nor do I want to deal with stroker crank clearancing. All I've built so far is a stock 1600. Eventually I will build a stroker, for now I am just trying to work my way up in baby steps.

My requirements for this 1679 are simple. It has to be fun, it has to be reliable enough to get me the 40 miles to the track and the 40 miles back home and it hast to be powerful enough to get me into the 9's in an 1/8th mile.

I have two engine builds I am considering:

69x88 mm
L3 ACN heads (35x32mm)
019 distributor
9.0:1 CR
Engle 110 cam
40mm IDF's
1/2" Merged header
Full flowed
Doghouse cooler and tin

69x88mm
L3 ACN heads (35x32mm)
Locked out 009 distributor
7.5:1 CR
Stock cam
1.4x ratio rockers
Draw through 40mm DCOE turbo setup @ 8 psi
Full flowed
Doghouse cooler and tin

The turbo setup is appealing to me and I feel I'd probably make more power on that engine but I have never built or spent much time with a turbo engine. It scares me a little because I have never dabbled with boost and would hate to blow an engine due to too much boost or timing. Still the idea of all that torque is appealing.

Let me know what y'all think. I have a budget of about $2,500 for the engine. This will not be a daily driver but will never see a trailer. It has to reliably get me to the drag strip and home again afterwards.

Thanks

Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:33 am

For a 2nd effort I like option 1; put 1.25 rockers on it to get the most out of the heads.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:05 am

If you can buy the car for a good price, do it. Just remember racing is not an inexpensive hobby. Every thing you do and buy must be considered as through away. You will break things. It can't be helped. Driving the car to the track is not a good idea, unless you have a ride home.
A lot of the parts for the car, tranny and engine you can pick up used, it will make the budget go farther.
I have raced VW's off and on for 30 years, and do all my own work. Building the cars, all the machine work, building engines and trannys, everthing. It is a fun and enjoyable hobby. Just not a cheap one.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:33 am

you are talking machine in 88's right?

Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:39 am

andy198712 wrote: you are talking machine in 88's right?

" I do not want to machine my case for larger P&C's due to wait time at the local machine shop".(/quote)......at least that is what he said.

Mark

Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:19 am

Go 1600's then, or even 1500's if your goin turbo you won't notice it I wouldn't have thought, but you'll nice it'll last longer ;)

Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:21 am

9's with a 1679...... :lol: 110 with kadrons :lol: :lol:

Save your money and build a 2276.......

Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:22 am

machine in 88's - two types- he can use the machine in head/slip in case type.

also to get in the 9's would be difficult- you really need to lighten the car, turbo should be mandatory-especially with small cc- I would expect 12's in the 1/4 with a good turbo

Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:23 am

whoops :oops: just saw it was 1/8 my bad #-o

Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:31 am

Here is a link from a Jake Raby post talking about a great combo for a type 1 1679. Just read it yesterday.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=444730&highlight=1679+nephew

Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:40 am

MURZI wrote: 9's with a 1679...... :lol: 110 with kadrons :lol: :lol:

Save your money and build a 2276.......

9s in the 1/8th should be doable on a 1679. Might need some boost to do it, but i think I have set myself a reasonable goal.

Doesn't have to be a 9 flat, I would take 9.90.

Never said anything about kadrons and a 110. My 1600 with stock cam has kads. The 1679 with a 110 would have IDFs. I stated this in the original post.

To answer the question about machine in 88s no I was looking at the thick wall slip ins sold by John at ACN where you use stock case openings but 90.5/92 heads. If I was machining the case I'd go ahead and run a 1776 or 1914.

I guess my two biggest concerns are
1) turbo or NA
2) will it get me home/how often am i going to break things

Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:44 am

locky wrote: Here is a link from a Jake Raby post talking about a great combo for a type 1 1679. Just read it yesterday.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=444730&highlight=1679+nephew

I actually know the guy who owns that engine now, it busted a bearing a few weeks ago bur up til then he was pretty happy with it. Next time I see him I will pick his brain.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:14 am

9.90's is a mid 15 qtr.... I havent seen many sub 1915cc engines do that ...not streetable ones anyway.

My 1835, 110 cam'd, 44IDF'd BAJA runs 15.50's @88, and the car is really light....

you are gonna have to make over 100 hp to get to your goal. I dont believe that will happen with a 1679. Its possible, but the street manners will really go away.

A close ratio box will really help when you reach a HP limit with the engine.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:42 am

1679cc: 88x69(built by Chong Woo)
9:1 C/R
Dual 40 Dellortos with 34 Vents
40x35 Chong Woo ported heads and manifolds
Camshaft: 296* x .490” lift with stock ratio rockers
Stock rods
Stock 69mm (NON C/W) crank 8 doweled with 12lb. flywheel
1 5/8” header with 2” muffler
1750lb. “Street Car” with driver
Close ratio transmission
6” slicks

13.90 @ 94 MPH in the 1/4 mile on “pump gas” at Pomona, CA

Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:02 am

I think it is a poor idea to drive any car 40 miles to the track, race it, and expect it to make it home. I live 30 miles from the drag strip and many times I have hooked up the $75 tow bar and towed my street legal Dunebuggy to the track even though I have an enclosed trailer. It's just a lot simpler, and I've had to tow it homew after breaking a CV joint.

Decide if you want a N/A engine or turbo before you do anything. To get 9's in the 1/8th with N/A I'm gonna strongly suggest you bite your fears of machine work and build a 1915cc. I promise once you do you'll be wanting a stroker engine to run 8's.

Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:14 pm

Farmhand and Murzi thank you for the specs and times. Looks like I am going to have to build this thing pretty stout to get it where i want.

Racerdave, that is my biggest concern-driving to the track, breaking something, and being stuck an hour from home with a broke car. It's one thing to drive my 1600 to the track and make a few slow passes, but another thing entirely with a quicker car. Unfortunately I do not have a tow bar or a car with a trailer hitch.

As far as turbo or Na goes I am more comfortable building a naturally aspirated engine but it looks like I will have to spin the nuts off of it to make any power.

One thing is for sure, this is addictive. A few mid 12 second passes in my 1600 powered bug and im already thinking of how I can break 12 in that car and go faster in another.

Wed May 02, 2012 3:23 pm

farmhand wrote: 1679cc: 88x69(built by Chong Woo)
9:1 C/R
Dual 40 Dellortos with 34 Vents
40x35 Chong Woo ported heads and manifolds
Camshaft: 296* x .490” lift with stock ratio rockers
Stock rods
Stock 69mm (NON C/W) crank 8 doweled with 12lb. flywheel
1 5/8” header with 2” muffler
1750lb. “Street Car” with driver
Close ratio transmission
6” slicks

13.90 @ 94 MPH in the 1/4 mile on “pump gas” at Pomona, CA
Chong woo makes horse power with those numbers .......

Thu May 03, 2012 1:51 pm

I would think that a turbo will start adding costs quickly; might stick with N/A for now and see where you can get.

My old engine is a 1600, Scat C/W crank with rebuilt rods, cast pistons, 110 cam, and some heads with 40X32 valves in them. They were ported a bit. Ran 1.25 rockers, and was easily able to run 40 IDF's and even went with IDA's later (which ran fine).

If you stick with the N/A route, spend money on making sure the engine will be bullet proof. I.E. I would probably use a forged crank (if you replace the crank, why not go a bit bigger?), forged pistons, and a set of good matched rods. Lightweight flywheel? 1700 pound pressure plate for sure with a solid disc for sure. Might go with straight cut cam gears. Use a power pulley while at the track? Compression will help power, but if you are driving far in hot outside temps, the engine won't like it. Make sure you have a decent exhaust system too.

The next thing you'll find though is that possibly the transmission or at least CV joints won't be up to the task.

How are your brakes too? Disc up front at least?

I think you'll have fun at least :) Have you considered an Engle W120 cam? Might not be as "streetable" however it might be more fun...

Good luck!

Thu May 03, 2012 2:47 pm

is the crank you have a counterweighted one??? if not get a 74-76 mm stroker crank(balanced of corse) and proceed from there, you will be happy you did. my first vw motor was a 87x78.8, no case cutting ,but some clearancing, the 74-76 should not need it or little if any .