TheSamba.com :: View topic - Clutch disengagement (constant adjustments needed)

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:31 am

I have a 78 Bus with a 1Z TDI engine mounted at 15* with the Kennedy plate. I have a regeared 091 Trans with shortened input shaft and the Kennedy Stage 2 Pressure Plate.

I've got about 2500 miles on the swap so far. Everything is working really well, with the exception of the clutch. I'm using a clutch cable setup, not hydraulic.

Engagement occurs very near the floor. Just in order to get that, I had to use a shorter clutch cable. Not ideal, but I got used to that.

Frequently, the clutch will not fully disengage enough to shift into reverse or 1st. I go under the bus, give the wingnut a half-turn and I'm good for another little while. At rest, the clutch lever is about vertical.

I've replaced all the cable, bowden, etc. I know it's normal for the clutch to need some adjustment in the first few days, but this is definitely not that.

My buddy/experienced VW mechanic says that he has had constant-adjustment needed problems with two Kennedy clutches and ended up switching to stock. I can do that too, but then I'll need to detune about 20+ lb/feet out of my engine. I could switch to a Kennedy Stage 1 without detuning, but now I'm nervous about using their products. Changing the clutch in my configuration is going to be tricky/lots of work, so want it to be right.

Could there be anything else causing this issue or is it really a bum pressure plate?

Any other advice?

Thanks much!
Mark

P.S. This is what the clutch arm looks like at rest in order for me to get enough travel to disengage it. If I give the cable a tug, I can hear it tap the throwout bearing -- it's very close to it at rest.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:06 am

A visual check of the clutch tube to make sure it's not cracked, loose, broken anywhere, Check the cable attaching point at the front to make sure it's not bending. Pull the cable itself to make sure it's not coming apart, even though it is new. If those are all good, must be a problem in the bellhousing, either clutch or T/O bearing and shaft?

I too have heard over on the UAC that Kennedy isn't what it used to be. Disappointing, I hoped they would be the one part we could rely on :cry:

brad

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:17 am

I had the exact same symptoms with my 091 and stage 1. It turned out to be the KEP pressure plate had half collapsed.

Steve

Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:48 am

I'm having the same problem! My stage one lasted no more than 200 miles. I'm disgusted. This is the third plate that I've had in my car. I was very careful to adjust per the KEP directions. I had a grinding/squeel noise which I thought was the T/O bearing. It was not. I diasasembled everything and inspected each component. reassempled everything and have the same problem. I could not get the trans into gear and am now consideing all new components, and the adapter sleeve so I can run all late parts in my early style transaxle. I hope that KEP can supply a winner this time.

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:38 pm

Wow, I was not expecting 3 concurring opinions all right away. I was hoping I would be a fluke.

I'm going to do a little bowden tube adjustment today as my last effort. It's not as S-shaped as it could be, so might as well.

..but it sounds like I'll be having to dial back the power and get into a nice stock pressure plate. I'll lose 20-30 ft/lb of fun. I guess I'm lucky, if I had gone with a bigger turbo setup, I'd be giving up a lot more power.

Thanks for all. P.S. I may forward this thread to Kennedy so they know. They were nice when I dealt with them, but in addition to the clutch issue, they sent me an adapter plate without the timing position hole. ugh! More coffee for the QA people over there (!*&*$(

Mark

Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:40 pm

Hmm.. Bus Depot has this kit which claims to hold 30% more torque, than standard???

http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=028141999HD

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:11 pm

kennedys are junk went to the J and G after going thru 2 kennedys, no more pressure plate problems

Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:28 pm

padex wrote: kennedys are junk went to the J and G after going thru 2 kennedys, no more pressure plate problems

Where did you get your J&G from? I've put them in at work, good parts, never hada problem with them. I've got 2 new Kennedy's going into motors. Hope it's not a problem :? I found out about them AFTER I go the clutches.

brad

Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:26 pm

Same here! Two callapsed stage one's need to find a better alternative!!!! Any ideas?

Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:54 pm

J&G setups on a street car?? Is that doable?? I'm not familiar with the J&G, and want to know more....

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:55 pm

I am sorry its F&S , bought mine at bugformance sacramento Ca, never had a problem with it my motor is a 2187 with dual 44 and a 120 engle cam!

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:56 pm

I am sorry its F&S , bought mine at bugformance sacramento Ca, never had a problem with it my motor is a 2187 with dual 44 and a 120 engle cam!

Tue May 01, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi All,

I wanted to update on what I'm doing.

I ordered a Clutch Kit from Van-Cafe. For my mildly tuned engine and 091 it should be perfect. It's a mix of parts which are each supposed to be the best -- the LUK high torque plate, Sachs disc and Sachs bearing. If it handles 30% more torque than stock then I will be fine.

http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van_1335793468438/page_1584_211/van_cafe_clutch_kit_w_luk_plate.html

Vancafe shipped it pronto so will have it tomorrow to start work.

I also called over to Kennedy and talked with Brett. I pointed him to this thread and talked about the clutch issues as well as me having received the incorrect engine plate. He was very reasonable/helpful to deal with. I'm getting a new adapter plate cross-shipped for tomorrow which is what I had asked for. I'll also send him my pressure plate after we pull it for him to examine.

Brett says that they are not seeing lots of failures with pressure plates and was surprised to hear about these experiences. He said that they stand behind their stuff and want to hear about any problems. I'll take him at his word until there's evidence otherwise.

I'm just an enthusiast and a customer, but I'm thinking that these guys are not super Internet savvy and are not paying attention to forums, emails, but they do respond to an old-school phone call. It'd be fair to give them a chance to resolve any issues. If there are issues with plates breaking (and this thread says yes), my suggestion is to call them and work it that way.

Thanks for all the help..

Mark

Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:41 pm

Posting here as a postscript on what happened...

Kennedy cross-shipped me the correct adapter plate. They had originally given me the wrong one (without the observation hole for the timing mark.)

I bought the LUK pressure plate and sent the 228mm Stage 2 pressure plate to Kennedy for examination. My power output seems to be within what the LUK will handle. If I needed more, I'd have trickier decisions to make.

The Kennedy pressure plate was not obviously broken when removed as others in this thread reported on their Type1 pressure plates.

Says Brett at Kennedy "We found nothing wrong with the pressure plate. We took it apart after testing and found nothing wrong again. It took .050 more travel to release which is normal do to the higher clamp load."

So I'm not sure why the clutch needed constant adjustment. All that I can think of is that because the Stage 2 pressure plate takes so much pedal pressure to actuate that that was causing the cable to stretch. I had tried two new cables, mind you. The new plate I'm using is much less pressure, maybe even less than stock and I have not found the constant-adjustment needed after the switch.

To others having issues with Kennedy stuff, I'd suggest to call and speak to Brett. He said they want to stand behind the products and resolve any issues. I'd caution that phone seems more effective than email in this regard and also they did need some reminding during the process..

Bus is running well now and even got washed and waxed last weekend. Now hopefully not taking anything apart for a while!

Mark

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:59 pm

I am pleased to say that Monty at KEP sent me a different PP after a conversation I had with him regarding the problems I experienced. I recieved the PP today, and am happy to begin with the R&R of the clutck system on my '67 bug. I will be returning the damaged plate to Kennedy for inspection. Thanks Monty.