TheSamba.com :: View topic - sacrilege....i put in HIDs into H4 headlamps...

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:11 am

Started with replacing the old sealed beam headlights with the cheapie copies of the Cibie Z Beams H4 headlights.

Very noticeable improvement.

Then decided to get some cheap HID bulb/ballasts. I picked the 35watt 4500K bulb/ballasts. No disco blue/purple lights for me.

Wiring it all up wasn't too bad. Eliminated the original passenger side headlight wiring. The HID relay harness included plugged into the driver side headlamp plug. I didn't want to void the warranty on the ballasts/wiring plugs, so I had to every so slightly enlarge the holes in the headlamp buckets to pass the HID wiring connectors through to connect the bulbs/headlamps. Then it was some double-sided tape and ziptie action for the ballasts. Eventually I'll make a nice bracket to hold the ballasts so it will look clean....that and when I wire up a 2nd fusebox for other stuff.

I chose the bulbs with the hi/lo function...basically a magnetic solenoid that moves the bulb in/out within the housing.

Yes...there is some light scatter, so I've been fiddling with the aiming of the lights. But driving the last couple of nights on the freeways and streets, no one has flashed me....can't be that bad right? ;-)

The hi beams are no brighter than the lo beams but at least I have flashing ability.

I'll try and post some night-time shots later.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:24 am

I'd be interested in seeing some night shots.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:33 am

how much did the headlights you gutted run you? I would love to put a set of those on my next bay, and when they burn out go HID.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:19 am

This is sooo rad!!!.... More pics please! (thumbs up)

I've been wanting to put hid's on my bay but worried since the wiring in these vehicles are poo poo and was worried on how much draw it would pull

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:45 am

xenons will pull more amps/watts at startup, but while they are running pull under 35 watts. theres too many variables to consider when posting your experiences as opposed to others experiences and equipment.

i would NEVER bother with some 'cheap' HID's. one of the ballasts or bulbs is going to take a crap and then youre going to be stuck with a headlight out. i would have only bought Hella/Sylvania/Osram

there isnt ANY xenon out there thats suitable to be dropped into a reflector type light. they have to be designed to properly disperse the light. at a minimum, there are some xenon bulbs that are designed to operate in reflector as opposed to projector type housings. you could have used one of these (D2R).

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:58 am

VWMIKE76 has HIDs in his late westy.....H4 and HID...great combo, bright enough to notice in the daylight from two blocks away, and yet not anooying at all. only thing i would do is put some rediculous HIGH watt bulbs in...like 45 or 90 watt bulbs...just cause i am an asshole like that...:D :twisted:

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:48 pm

westy66 wrote: xenons will pull more amps/watts at startup, but while they are running pull under 35 watts. theres too many variables to consider when posting your experiences as opposed to others experiences and equipment.

i would NEVER bother with some 'cheap' HID's. one of the ballasts or bulbs is going to take a crap and then youre going to be stuck with a headlight out. i would have only bought Hella/Sylvania/Osram

there isnt ANY xenon out there thats suitable to be dropped into a reflector type light. they have to be designed to properly disperse the light. at a minimum, there are some xenon bulbs that are designed to operate in reflector as opposed to projector type housings. you could have used one of these (D2R).

Could you please elaborate? I've been running 100/55W halogens forever. The draw is a little sever with highs on, especially when I have the driving light switched on too (and I have two sitting in the shed to replace the single one too). If I can have more brightness with less draw I'd be really happy.

Why yes I have always been night blind.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:51 pm

We have factory HID's in two of our cars - Acura and Ford. Personally I am not impressed compared to the older Cibie H4's.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:21 pm

Quote: how much did the headlights you gutted run you?

I bought the Z beam H4 headlight copies (made by neolite)

17.96 per headlight.

http://classicgarage.com/7rounheadwit.html

HID kit I bought was from DDM tuning.
$30 for the 35watt raptor kit, and an additional $20 for the H4 bulbs with hi/lo function w/ relay harness ( the harness is thin gauge wiring)

http://www.ddmtuning.com/Product-Categories/HID-Kits-Lighting/HID-Kits

So for roughly $90, I got H4 headlights with the HID setup.

I wanted something inexpensive that would put out enough light on the road without too much light scatter; and run less amperage than a conventional hi-wattage H4 headlight setup.

In terms of reliablity, I've used the DDM 55w slim ballasts with their bulbs on my Honda F4i motorcycle for about three years now (about 5k miles). No problems with either the ballasts nor bulbs.

If I was super concerned, I could buy an extra ballast and bulb. They're priced pretty good at $15 for a ballast and $15 for just the H4 bulbs (or $35 for a pair with the hi/lo function).

Worse comes to worse, i could carry a couple of conventional h4 bulbs, and fairly quickly disconnect the HID setup and go back to the regular h4 bulbs.

I'll get some night-time shots Wednesday.

Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:44 pm

Did your lamp hit the back of the headlight bucket? I have thought about this conversion for a while and wondered about the clearance. I currently (get it?) have 100 watt H4 lamps but can always use a better light spectrum, such as a 4500K HID.
I have converted all my vehicles to HID setups, with varying results. My BMW has H1 lamps and projectors- works very well. My ChevZuki has H4 lamps and 6000K hids- good on low beam, way better light color. I like them .
Mrs. greenbus pilots' Chev Venture I replaced with HID lamps- they suck. The headlights on that rig just overall suck right from the factory. What a joke.
I like the look of your setup- I may go ahead with mine now that I see they fit.
I have had pretty good luck with cheap HID conversions off fleaBay, with the possible exception of the hi- low relays with the kits- i had 2 fail, so I used DIN relays instead. Way more reliable, IMHO.
As always, YMMV.

Tue May 01, 2012 4:40 am

SGKent wrote: We have factory HID's in two of our cars - Acura and Ford. Personally I am not impressed compared to the older Cibie H4's.

I agree with this. I got some Cibie H4's from Daniel Stern years ago and put them in my bay and WOW they are immensely bright. But, I was comparing a sealed beam/generator setup in my split to this H4/alternator setup. But I will say that the bus' lights are as bright (on the roadway) as my xenon HID setup on my Subaru.

Tue May 01, 2012 6:55 am

Damn! Hope my '68 Westy never loses one of its real Cibie Z-beams! Perfect with relays & 130/90W H4s.

Tue May 01, 2012 7:53 am

WestyPop wrote: Damn! Hope my '68 Westy never loses one of its real Cibie Z-beams! Perfect with relays & 130/90W H4s.

IMHO that is the setup I liked most.

Tue May 01, 2012 9:09 am

Aren't the Z-Beams all about the pattern design?

AFAIK there are a few companies out there that have copied the pattern and selling reproductions. The H4 lenses I have currently were made by an Indian company and I have been quite happy with them.

Because I can't leave well enough alone im curious if the reproduction Z-beam patterns would be any better. It would be fun to get a side by side comparison, if you can really compare a repro and call it a fair battle.

You can get a pair of them for $36+ shipping from here: http://classicgarage.com/7rounheadwit.html

No bulbs included, but Amazon has those Hella H83140011 H4 Series 130/90 Watt 12 V Halogen Bulbs for less than $10 each.

Tue May 01, 2012 9:26 am

Quote: Did your lamp hit the back of the headlight bucket?

The HID hi/lo bulbs are a lil bigger than the standard H4 bulb (b/c of the magetic solenoid, but do not contact the headlight bucket.

HOWEVER... you will either have to enlarge the rubber grommet hole (on the headlight bucket) or snip your hid bulb wires to pass through the hole. The HID connectors are not small enough to pass through. I elected to enlarge the rubber grommet hole with one of those unidrillbit and shave some of the plastic off the connector to get it to pass through. I didn't want to mess with modding the ballast wiring bc that would void the lifetime warranty.

Tue May 01, 2012 9:28 am

Quote: AFAIK there are a few companies out there that have copied the pattern and selling reproductions. The H4 lenses I have currently were made by an Indian company and I have been quite happy with them.

Those are what I have. I too wonder how they compare to the real Cibies.

Tue May 01, 2012 2:33 pm

airkooledchris wrote:
You can get a pair of them for $36+ shipping from here: http://classicgarage.com/7rounheadwit.html
Halogen Bulbs for less than $10 each.

SWEET MOTHER OF... oh wait they'd be LHD pattern. Guess I have a few more years of trying to hide the rust in mine. I wish I still had some old open beams around. I used to be able to strip them down, polish everything and hit the reflectors with chrome paint to make it legal looking. Now all I can do is look at my lights and feel sad :( All the good replacements are LHD.

...oh. That's right. I can't use them anyway. My parking lights are in there.

Wed May 02, 2012 11:07 am

WestyPop wrote: Damn! Hope my '68 Westy never loses one of its real Cibie Z-beams! Perfect with relays & 130/90W H4s.

I'm running 55/60w H4's now. Do you have to wire about additional relays to run 130/90w?

Wed May 02, 2012 12:25 pm

Manfreds78bay wrote: WestyPop wrote: Damn! Hope my '68 Westy never loses one of its real Cibie Z-beams! Perfect with relays & 130/90W H4s.

I'm running 55/60w H4's now. Do you have to wire about additional relays to run 130/90w?

Typically, you run one relay for the low beams and one for the high beams. both of the relays go to the factory lo/hi beam relay. Thicker gauge wiring, etc.

Wed May 02, 2012 6:25 pm

frankenwabbit wrote: Manfreds78bay wrote: WestyPop wrote: Damn! Hope my '68 Westy never loses one of its real Cibie Z-beams! Perfect with relays & 130/90W H4s.

I'm running 55/60w H4's now. Do you have to wire about additional relays to run 130/90w?

Typically, you run one relay for the low beams and one for the high beams. both of the relays go to the factory lo/hi beam relay. Thicker gauge wiring, etc.

someone got a link for that wiring diagram? i looked recently and couldnt find one.