TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1st valve adjustment= new noises & more power, less spee

Thu May 03, 2012 1:35 pm

Last weekend I did a few things to my bus that I haven't done before including changed my pushrod tube seals following this: (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=187218); taking my spark plugs out and getting them cleaned up/checking gap, and adjusting my valves following that oldschool VW valve adjustment video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpH7VftH3_I). I gave myself a day and took 4, haha.
Anyways, I have been listening for new engine sounds and there are definately a few. Please excuse the non technical descriptions.

1. ticking- constant rhythm, drivers side only, like someone tapping on the back of a thick aluminum bowl with a plastic chopstick.

2. what I can only describe as a moan, kind of like low wind noise in an attic. When in neutral, it starts after a little acceleration and goes away when the rpms get a little higher.

3. constant whirring rattle, more apparent when I open the engine lid. This was happening somewhat before the work...

Also, I feel like im getting more power but im having to shift about 5mph earlier than normal (at least according to the engine noise level/feel that i was shifting at before). Topping out at 50 on the highway rather than 55 before.

I would really appreciate any thoughts; I know its not a lot to go on, but im pretty green and don't know my engine well yet. Should any alarm bells be ringing? Am I OK to go camping this weekend :D ?

Thu May 03, 2012 2:05 pm

If the ticking is coming from one side and revealed itself after you did your first valve adjustment ("first valve adjustment" being the operative words) then get back under there and check your clearances again. Could be valve chatter.
Did you index your pushrods when you replaced your tube seals? They all have their own wear pattern and play well with each other.
Did you remove your rocker shafts or loosen them? Properly torqued?

Thu May 03, 2012 2:09 pm

check the muffler area for that rattle maybe? while the engines off, tap around SOFTLY with a rubber mallet, and see what noises you can find (rattles ect)

Thu May 03, 2012 2:37 pm

62daily wrote: If the ticking is coming from one side and revealed itself after you did your first valve adjustment ("first valve adjustment" being the operative words) then get back under there and check your clearances again. Could be valve chatter.
Did you index your pushrods when you replaced your tube seals? They all have their own wear pattern and play well with each other.
Did you remove your rocker shafts or loosen them? Properly torqued?

Thanks!

Ill check those clearances again.

I tried to keep the pushrods oriented properly but i might have got a couple turned around... Dont know which ones though...

I torqued the rocker arms to just over 14 foot pounds. I had to get a few replacement M-7 nuts because I stripped the originals (first time using a torque wrench :roll: )

Ill try the mallet trick, I know my muffler is really rough, lots of holes etc.

Thu May 03, 2012 3:08 pm

You don't want to be using a 1/2 drive torque wrench on fasteners that are that small. A 3/8 inch beam torque wrench works well for such things. Some 1/4 in*lb torque wrenches will do this job as well.

I am wondering if you adjusted your valves with the crank 360° (180 distributor degrees). At TDC for the valves you are adjusting you should be able to rock the crank to 45° each side of center and get no movement of either valve. If the valves are moving as you rock the crank back and forth you are not at the correct TDC.

Something is seriously wrong, you should be able to easily cruise 15 or 20 mph faster than what you are doing now.

Thu May 03, 2012 4:06 pm

Wildthings wrote: You don't want to be using a 1/2 drive torque wrench on fasteners that are that small. A 3/8 inch beam torque wrench works well for such things. Some 1/4 in*lb torque wrenches will do this job as well.

I am wondering if you adjusted your valves with the crank 360° (180 distributor degrees). At TDC for the valves you are adjusting you should be able to rock the crank to 45° each side of center and get no movement of either valve. If the valves are moving as you rock the crank back and forth you are not at the correct TDC.

Something is seriously wrong, you should be able to easily cruise 15 or 20 mph faster than what you are doing now.

That's possible. I made it half way round the engine before I realised that. It was an initial adjustment after topend work so things being tight / loose didn't really mean much to me.

Also another mistake I've made is adjusting to the wrong numbers. I use metric, but of course my feelers have both metric and imperial measurements. Did it all using the wrong feelers and it didn't twig with me until I started it up and it sounded bad and ran a bit funny.

Thu May 03, 2012 6:19 pm

Thanks for the tips all; based on what you said, and the fact that I don't have time to recheck things myself in the next couple days, I took it to my shop to have a quick look see. I'm anticipating having to do this a few times as I learn. Ill follow up with how the check-up goes :P.

Thu May 03, 2012 6:35 pm

Did you check to see if you had solid lifters or had hydraulic lifters. Big difference in the way they are adjusted.

Thu May 03, 2012 9:58 pm

I didn't check at the time, but I believe my pushrods are aluminum, akin to the ones seen halfway down, so solid lifters http://www.ratwell.com/technical/HydraulicLifters.html.

Mon May 07, 2012 8:59 pm

Just to follow up on the noisy valves, it turns out I had the gap set fairly well, but several of the outer rocker arm pieces with the holes had been flipped around- I didn't realize they weren't the same on both sides and by installing them wrong, the adjustment pin end that connects with the valve is at an improper angle. I was busy trying to keep the notch at the bottom for the retaining wire and ignoring the inside and outside facets! Heed the warning all those other newbies doing valves for the first time. I saw someone on here suggesting the use a long bolt to keep them together while removing them for pushrod tube seal replacement.

On a side note, no oil leaks from the push rod tubes 8)

In terms of my low speed, I can get faster than when the valves were messed up but it still feels like I want to cruise at just over 50 unless I am giving it a ton of gas. I feel like I shouldn't have to be flooring it to get to 60... (flooring it being relative because something is bent and i'm not getting full throttle, haha), however, even at 60 the engine slows me down pretty quickly when I let off the gas- is this normal?? Id appreciate some input this being my first VW and not knowing how they are supposed to feel :? )

Mon May 07, 2012 9:13 pm

did you mess with the timing or pull any spark plug wires loose?

Wed May 09, 2012 7:59 am

This is a fairly interesting thread :D

Wed May 09, 2012 8:22 am

whatdoesthisbuttondo? wrote:
I torqued the rocker arms to just over 14 foot pounds.
I stripped the originals

If this is a Type 4 engine, you are going to strip the new ones or rip the studs out of the head. The correct torque for the rocker stands is 10 ft/lbs for Type 4 engines, and 18 ft/lbs for the Type 1 engines.

I am glad you are nervous and hyper-alert, you'll need more of that if you insist on torquing parts incorrectly.
:P Colin :P

Wed May 09, 2012 8:28 am

Amskeptic wrote:
If this is a Type 4 engine, you are going to strip the new ones or rip the studs out of the head. The correct torque for the rocker stands is 10 ft/lbs for Type 4 engines, and 18 ft/lbs for the Type 1 engines.

I am glad you are nervous and hyper-alert, you'll need more of that if you insist on torquing parts incorrectly.
:P Colin :P

X2!