TheSamba.com :: View topic - Something to consider... Engine fire system

Wed May 09, 2012 8:48 am

I'm not connected in any way to this but thought I'd share with you guys.

http://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/boat-accessories/427275-automatic-halon-system.html

Wed May 09, 2012 9:26 am

sounds like a reasonable solution.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:32 am

I wonder if the fuel vapor monitor would be set off by some of our more 'odiferous' engine bays.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:54 am

Probably only one way to find out.

Wed May 09, 2012 1:26 pm

I looked at some of those once, and it's been discussed here before. It seems the extinguisher automatically opens up at 175F.
Pretty sure our engine compartments get hotter than that.

EDIT: Though, I have seen remote-activated systems. Sort of an "automotive Ansul", which I think would be more suited to our vehicles.
Something like this:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Stroud/877/9301/10002/-1?CT=999

Wed May 09, 2012 2:04 pm

I don't have one in a my '71 Bus, but my Beetle is equipped with a Safecraft Halon set-up-- with nozzles aimed at both throttle bodies and directly under the fuel cell where the pump is located. The big red PULL knob is awfully tempting for the kids.

Wed May 09, 2012 2:38 pm

I like the one I saw in the "Up in Smoke" thread awhile back. It's operated by the driver up front with a valve under the seat. Instead of sensors that turn it on, it's the driver.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...;start=140

jure-slo wrote: How to make a cheap fire extinguishing system:

What you need:

How you put it together:

VW engineers designed a hole for exact this purpose:

Make some holes in the tube where it passes the Eberspacher:

This is where it comes out in the engine compartment:

Next time you see flames in the rear view mirror just open the valve, park the bus and slowly get out....
The engine will shut off automatically because of the CO2, also the electric fuel pump which is operated by the gen. light.

If it works? Hope to newer find out...

Wed May 09, 2012 4:06 pm

I have been toying with the idea of getting an Elide Fire ball. Assuming they actually work as claimed, they are as close to KISS as you can get.

Wed May 09, 2012 8:50 pm

OK , I'll bite; Whats an elide fireball?

Wed May 09, 2012 9:13 pm

grandpa pete wrote: OK , I'll bite; Whats an elide fireball?

This is the shortest video I could find (47sec), but it isn't in English. Shows what the fireball does about halfway through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Le0ILHZGc

Wed May 09, 2012 9:34 pm

The fireball is pretty cool, but aren't there issues with using dry chem with engines?
I've heard it will destroy parts that might otherwise be salvageable.

Wed May 09, 2012 11:55 pm

WestyMan1971 wrote: The fireball is pretty cool, but aren't there issues with using dry chem with engines?
I've heard it will destroy parts that might otherwise be salvageable.

Have no idea on the effects of dry chemicals, but if it is fully consumed there won't be much of anything worth salvaging.

Thu May 10, 2012 6:48 am

I have always wanted to install a fire suppression system. I have never wanted an engine fire system, though.

I wonder how the FireBall does with gasoline fires... [edit:] They say it works on Class A, B and C: http://elidefireball.com/index-1.html

It's not as cool or expensive as the remotely-activated Halon systems, but, it certainly is simple. Even if the dry chemical screws up some components, it could save the engine and the bus.

I like it. Now - where to find one? Who sells these?

Thu May 10, 2012 6:49 am

I repaired a 1978 bus that had been in a small engine fire. The owner shot it with dry chemical. I pretty much just washed it off and don't remember the chemical causing any damage.

I also repaired a Vanagon that had an electrical fire up under the dash which was caused by some previous owners poor electrical skills. The new owner hit it heavily with dry chemical up under the dash and in through the radiator area. It pretty much ruined any electrical connections at the fuse block. The chemical caused severe corrosion turning copper connections green. I tried using vinegar to neutralize but it was pretty much a lost cause. The Vanagon was driveable but was going to have gremlins from then on. The worst part was the smell. I couldn't get rid of that.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 7:54 pm

Gentlemen,
I have been reading a lot about fire systems, and I am no expert, but was attracted to the Elide fire ball to mount in the engine compartment of my bus as a passive suppression system. I bought 2 from a supplier in Canada (Word of Mouth Hydroponics) for $35 ea.
Caveat Emptor: they have an expiration date---5 years from date of manufacture. The seller, of course, omitted this fact and sent me two that only have 1 year left on their clock. He was not, shall we say, sophisticated....and when I called him, he went into a long explanation about the dates not being "real" and how you can still eat K-rations from WW2! Yes, he really said that.
Anyway, if you buy these things, be aware they have a shelf life! I was not.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:04 pm

dorney wrote: Gentlemen,
I have been reading a lot about fire systems, and I am no expert, but was attracted to the Elide fire ball to mount in the engine compartment of my bus as a passive suppression system. I bought 2 from a supplier in Canada (Word of Mouth Hydroponics) for $35 ea.
Caveat Emptor: they have an expiration date---5 years from date of manufacture. The seller, of course, omitted this fact and sent me two that only have 1 year left on their clock. He was not, shall we say, sophisticated....and when I called him, he went into a long explanation about the dates not being "real" and how you can still eat K-rations from WW2! Yes, he really said that.
Anyway, if you buy these things, be aware they have a shelf life! I was not.

Thanks for the info, I had never looked for an expiration date before. Too bad the seller won't come clean on this. Maybe a complaint to eBay would help.

Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:24 pm

dorney wrote:
Caveat Emptor: they have an expiration date---5 years from date of manufacture. The seller, of course, omitted this fact and sent me two that only have 1 year left on their clock. He was not, shall we say, sophisticated....and when I called him, he went into a long explanation about the dates not being "real" and how you can still eat K-rations from WW2! Yes, he really said that.

That's...hilarious. "Expiration date? We don't need no stinking expiration date!"
:evil: :roll:

Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:41 pm

Looking to install a fire suppression system in my Bus. The only set up I have seen in a Bay is from Oppossum. Has anyone else installed a system in there engine compartment? I would like to put a halon system with the tank in the dished part of the spare tire and plumb it from there. I would rather have an automatic set up but maybe the manual pull under the front seat is the way to go. Anyone?

Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:35 am

I looked at race style automatic systems, nice but pricey.

Stroud 9302 - Stroud Safety Fire Systems

http://www.jegs.com/i/Stroud/877/9302/10002/-1

Stroud Safety Fire Systems

Product images may differ from actual product appearance.

One of the most dependable Halon 1301 and FE-36 systems available, Stroud Safety Fire Systems are safe to use under the most extreme conditions. Stroud has been protecting drivers and equipment for over 20 years. They continue the tradition with a range of fire suppression delivery systems for all motorsports.

One pound of Halon 1301 & FE-36 discharged for every 50 cubic feet of enclosed volume will achieve a 5% concentration in the air. This is sufficient to extinguish most fires with a substantial margin of safety. Stroud Safety Systems are designed to achieve the concentration within ten seconds, where upon combustion cannot occur. Any size enclosed area will be protected as long as a 5% concentration of Halon 1301 or FE-36 is present. Once the agent is diluted with fresh air to below the 5% concentration, the system begins to lose its effectiveness.

Halon 1301 & FE-36 has proven effective on the flammable portions of Class A fires (wood, paper, etc.), Class B fires (flammable liquid and gas), and Class C fires (electrical). It has also been found effective on deep-seated Class A fires if sufficient soaking time is allowed to dissipate the heat.

The DuPont Company concludes that Halon 1301 & FE-36, when used in concentrations of up to 7% by volume for several minutes, can be used in the presence of humans with a high degree of safety. Research has proven that concentrations of up to 7% by volume of Halon 1301 or FE-36 produce no harmful lasting physical effects on humans. However, in concentrations exceeding 7%, tests have shown that subjects experience feelings of lightheadedness and reduced dexterity. Under normal conditions, the agent does not have corrosive or other adverse effects on metal or plastic components.

Five-pound systems include bottle, head, mount, clamps, 3' pull cable, two 3-port nozzles (180°), one 6-port nozzle (360°), fittings, and 25' of tubing. Ten-pound systems include the same except a 6' pull cable replaces the 3' pull cable.

Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:19 am

What about using straight CO2?