TheSamba.com :: View topic - Bought a cheap 85 Westy small crack in case?

Tue May 15, 2012 9:52 pm

I was thinking this thing had a "normal" oil leak, seal of some sort, but when I got down under there today and put fresh oil in it, I could see it dripping from very close to the exact center of the motor, which was odd... kept looking and sure enough there is a slight fissure about 1.5" from the center line towards the right hand side, again mid point fore/aft. I can just catch a nail on it, it's about half an inch long. I started the van and it runs ok no banging noises so it hasn't thrown a rod. Must have been smacked by a rock REAL hard. My question is can you weld, or JB weld a case in situation like this? Thanks.

Tue May 15, 2012 9:57 pm

Having trouble visualizing this as your description of smacking a rock seems incongruent with a barely noticeable crack. If you bash a thinwalled aluminum case on a rock hard enough to crack it, you'll have easily spotted gouging there that would clearly be related to the crack. Yet you had to stare and see a seep to detect a crack.

So a pic would be good. But an oil-containing case isn't a good candidate for an external fix like epoxy. I'd think externally welding it with a talented welder laying a bead on it would be the way to go.

DougM

Tue May 15, 2012 10:21 pm

Yeah I know, it's quite a "strange case" ;-) , your right there is no dent... just a crack that I can catch my finger nail on.

Wed May 16, 2012 4:24 am

Grab us a photo, lets take a look. There are specialist cast alloy welders about, you could try yellow pages?

Wed May 16, 2012 7:44 am

radish150 wrote: . . . My question is can you weld, or JB weld a case in situation like this? Thanks.

Sure, you can weld it. Pull the engine, break it down to the bare case, hot tank the case, grind a groove through the crack, bolt the case to a solid deck plate, preheat the case, tig the crack, throw an asbestos blanket over it while it cools, once cool, gauge the critical dimensions, correct any weirdness, then bolt it back together.

Before you do anything, make ABSOLUTELY certain that there is a crack leaking oil. If there is, I think a replacement motor would be a better way to go.

Richie

Wed May 16, 2012 7:54 am

Here's one problem your going to have if your thinking of getting this "crack" welded up while the engine is in the Van.

The heat of the mig or tig welder will draw the oil that's in the case right to the crack.
Even if you drain all of the oil first.
Whatever is on the case walls & inside of the engine will be sucked right to the heated area.
It'll never hold.

JB weld won't work either, with oil residue inside the cases.

You'll have to drop the engine, drain the oil, flush the inside of the case with lacquer thinner or alcohol to get as much of the oil outa there first, flip it upside down so the oil will run away from the crack.

Then have it welded.

I usually wave a torch on a opposite side or area away from the spot I'll be welding on to draw the petrolum away from where I'm welding.

You have to be real careful here with the cleaning of the inside of the case with it all assmembled.

You don't want to be washing out the bearing surfaces too.

No easy answer to is problem.

Wed May 16, 2012 9:46 am

Time for a bubble gum repair. :wink:

Wed May 16, 2012 9:59 am

Well, this is what it may lead up to.
To do the job right it'll take a bunch more than some folks may want to do.

This isn't a good time for an instant gratification process.

Wed May 16, 2012 10:36 am

I've actually had good luck with JB weld on a motorcycle crankcase before. I was able to get the aluminum really clean and scuffed up and the JB weld held up without leaks for as long as I had that bike.

Sounds like it'll be hard to get the engine clean in your case though. Not much harm from trying though. If it doesn't work, I have good used engines you may be interested in, much easier than disassembling for a proper weld repair.

Wed May 16, 2012 10:39 am

I think that if I were in the same situation, I would drain the oil...jack up the right side of the bus to move any oil in the sump to the left side...flood the crack area with Brake-Clean..give it a minute or two to dry..then apply some "JB Quik"

The JB Quik sets in just a few minutes..It is pretty strong stuff. Let it sit overnight, lower the bus and refill the engine case with oil..start the engine and see.

If that fails, you would be taking the engine out anyways for welding or replacement. You could use a propane torch to remove the JB.

Wed May 16, 2012 11:26 am

Given the astronomical unlikelihood of a crack thru the sump as described without any clear evidence of an impact, I personally couldn't even form an opinion before some clear, focused pictures are provided of the area, taken after a thorough scrubbing and solvent drying, with pics of it freshly cleaned first, and more after running the engine to full temp in the driveway so as not to blow any leakage around.

In other words, the question is pointless without pics! And more careful inspection must be done before jumping to a conclusion. I'm not an adherent to Sagan's assertion that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence*, but they do require evidence.

*which was always silly because all facts are simply facts, none are extraordinary. But he said it emphasize a point so I'm probably being unfair to the guy. And he's dead anyway.

Wed May 16, 2012 10:03 pm

Well... firstly, Tencentlife (Steely Dan fan?) I'm sorry I did not feel motivated to take photos, I was quite convinced it was a crack and that it was leaking by; tipping the van up on one side so it won't seep, sprayed brake clean, cleaned it with a wire wheel on a drill, then more brake clean, then let the van down again, and I watched the crack fill up and start to drip. An rather depressing update is there is not only one crack but on the other side of the motor in the exact same place, there are TWO pinholes about an inch apart, one of which I know is leaking by repeating the procedure. Question is... how in the heck does something like that happen??? I basically have very little faith in this motor at this point, two leaks, very unlikely that the PO was lucky or smart enough to get those weird leaks however they happened without damage to the motor. SO strange.

AtlasShrugged, bingo. Before reading your rather practical advice, that is exactly what I did, except I did serious cleaning with a wire wheel on a drill along with Brake clean and acetone, doing one side then the other (two holes) tipping the van from one side to the other. I used "quick aluminum" cures in one hour. I just put oil in it a few minutes ago and no drips yet. I'm pretty confident it won't leak right away, how long is another story. Anyway, thanks for that advice.. quite practical. Btw, I'm not sure Ayn Rand and Westfalias go together...do they? ;-)

Even if this patch holds, this van has too much rust for me to keep it, it's going down the road soon, leaking or not leaking. Too bad, the interior is GREAT! The carpet cleaned up like new and the cabinetry is in really good shape, lots of original stuff, all manuals, original bag for the jack, etc. Too much of a rusty bugger though. <gives sad puppy dog look>.

Wed May 16, 2012 10:47 pm

Quote: Question is... how in the heck does something like that happen???

My guess is some one jack up the rear of the van with a floor jack under the engine.

Wed May 16, 2012 11:12 pm

Ahhh, sounds about right. :2gunfire:

Thu May 17, 2012 12:16 am

I put a high capacity oil sump on my '69 camper, bumped it on a rock and put a half inch crack in the sump. It was leaking some oil through the crack, about a teaspoon a day. At the next oil change I used a triangular file to clean the the crack and washed it with ... . I filled the groove with JBWeld and it hasn't leaked a drop in seven years.

If
"this van has too much rust for me to keep it, it's going down the road soon, leaking or not leaking."

Then do a simple JBWeld, monitor the oil level, and drive it.

Aloha
tp

Thu May 17, 2012 6:34 am

Btw, I'm not sure Ayn Rand and Westfalias go together...do they?

Well, there are a lot of Vanagons in Galt's Gulch.

Thu May 17, 2012 6:38 am

radish150 wrote: ...it's going down the road soon, leaking or not leaking. Too bad, the interior is GREAT!...

If 'going down the road' is a euphemism for parting it out I might be interested in some interior bits.

But I agree, you have little to lose by trying to patch it -- if a slow leak comes back that alone isn't going to strand you anywhere.

I *like* [that thumb thing] the jack theory -- seems to account for the symetrical damage w/o other evidence of trauma.