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Sat May 19, 2012 8:44 am

89 tristar doka

Recently my truck went from starting sometimes to not at all. Just a click. I just installed a hard start relay and it fired up no problems 1st try. Shut it off to try again and nothing.... back to the click.

thoughts please.

Sat May 19, 2012 10:56 am

A hot start relay is just a bandaid for the underlying problem. Either your cables aren't passing electricity well or your starter or solenoid is shot. Remove and clean the connections on the cables, including the ground strap on the transmission nose cone and replace any cable that is at all questionable. Coat the connections with dielectric grease. You may be able to get by with having new brushes put in your starter, but for many a rebuilt exchange is a better option.

Sat May 19, 2012 11:17 am

Wild things,

Thank you for your cogent, technical advice/ideas.

Re that ground strap at the forward transmission, I coated the nut/bolt/stud and strap with copper anti-seize (to inhibit/slow rust). If you suggest against this, I'd be happy to replace with dielectric grease.

Your thoughts on whether my anti-seize strategy should be discouraged?

Skip

Sat May 19, 2012 11:29 am

delete

Sat May 19, 2012 11:37 am

Never thought to try antifreeze...(auto-correct spelling?).

Thanks for asking, yes I removed the short strap, cleaned it up, and replaced with new nut, washers and bolt. Strap is the braided type and appeared to be in good shape.

Sorry to hijack the thread, now back to the Doka clicking...

Skip

Sat May 19, 2012 2:30 pm

Certainly meant anti-seize and not antifreeze. Need an automatic brain check. :?

Sat May 19, 2012 6:23 pm

I just went crazy lately with a slow start, now no start problem.
I put in a hot start relay the end of last year, even though I did not expect it to solve my particular problem - and it didn't. (But it is a great addition to not run all the power through the ignition switch. I don't think there is a modern car that would do it that way. Head light relays are next - another circuit that should have relays)

Convinced it was the positive cable, then the starter. Turns out I had a dead cell in the battery. So I had battery voltage at the starter, but since I did not check voltage drop while cranking (or trying to crank), I did not suspect the battery. Diagnosis was further hampered by trying to jump with a freshly charged battery that was also bad. Got a new battery to install tomorrow - hoping and praying for the best.
So don't rule out the battery.

Sat May 19, 2012 8:57 pm

Yeah, I wasn't thinking the relay was a fix but understand it may have help. Thought it was weird it fired right away and not again though. I'll give battery a good charge tomorrow and give it a try again. Guess I'll clean up the terminal real good while its charging.

Since ignition switch was mentioned, I read somewhere a different one is used in a tristar, 7 tabs vs the 4 tabs in a regular transporter. Anyone have a source for these?

Can I test the starter in it? or is it a pull and have it bench tested at a shop?

Sat May 19, 2012 9:02 pm

grigley wrote: ...Can I test the starter in it? or is it a pull and have it bench tested at a shop?

Any auto parts place can take a cart out to the vehicle and test the starter in situ. Or you can do a simple test yourself by measuring the voltage drop when the starter cranks (if it cranks).

I'm thinking that seeing voltage drop to 10+ volts during cranking would be about normal, much less is a problem.

Sun May 20, 2012 4:47 am

A couple of voltage drop sites

Seems like a good write up here: http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm
Good diagrams here: http://www.excelauto.com/online/Tech.d/strvdt.html

This is a good test even without problems to make sure the wiring is all in good shape. :"Any added resistance to the starter circuit can result in decreased starter performance.
For example, with a system drawing 200 amps during cranking, when we add 0.01ohms resistance to the starter circuit, we will reduce the voltage in the system by 2 volts. This degrades the starter's performance and life span."

Maybe why some have such problems with starter life. I sure rebuild quality is part of it, but perhaps the added resistance of corroding wires and poor grounds is also contributing.

Sun May 20, 2012 6:54 am

vanagonjr wrote: Maybe why some have such problems with starter life. I sure rebuild quality is part of it, but perhaps the added resistance of corroding wires and poor grounds is also contributing.

This is certainly true. Rigs as old as these often need new wires, especially if they have been used in the snow belt or in the humid Southeast.

Sun May 20, 2012 8:29 am

New battery solved my problem! However, I am still going to conduct voltage drop tests to determine wire & grounds condition.

Is it possible to but wire with the same color codes as VW used? For example black/red used in ignition circuit? Any sources appreciated.

Sun May 20, 2012 12:28 pm

Just to throw something else in.

I had exactly the same symptoms. Installed relay, cleaned grounds, then eventually found the battery had a dead cell.

Well 3 months later it is happening again.

One time I had a bug that would eat batteries. They would work for a week then couldn't turn the car over. I'd go back to Walmart get a new battery. On the third one, (Walmart wasn't happy with me) I couldn't believe that I could get that many bad batteries.

My starter was from Autozone (lifetime warranty), not hard to change on a bug. They tested it and saw it was drawing way too many amps (internal short). Replaced the starter, never had another starting issue.

There is a starter under the back bench, ready for my next day off #-o

Sun May 20, 2012 12:53 pm

scottf3334 - thanks for that post - very interesting.

I wish one ould simply pay a diagnostic fee, and bring in the battery, starter and alternator and get them all tested on our older vechicles. When I rebuilding my engine, I brought my alternator in for a test and the store was "Like why are you doing this?" Well, it's off my motor, it's 20 plus years old, so I figured while it is convenient I'd have it done. Oh well, guess it wasn't convenient for them... :lol:

Sun May 20, 2012 6:23 pm

vanagonjr wrote: scottf3334 - thanks for that post - very interesting.

I wish one ould simply pay a diagnostic fee, and bring in the battery, starter and alternator and get them all tested on our older vechicles. When I rebuilding my engine, I brought my alternator in for a test and the store was "Like why are you doing this?" Well, it's off my motor, it's 20 plus years old, so I figured while it is convenient I'd have it done. Oh well, guess it wasn't convenient for them... :lol:

Sounds like you were using an old home town auto parts. A lot of times these guys made little effort to be competitive which has helped with the proliferation of national chains. I am thankful we have two good home town auto parts in our small town and no chains.

Sun May 20, 2012 6:24 pm

vanagonjr wrote: scottf3334 - thanks for that post - very interesting.

I wish one ould simply pay a diagnostic fee, and bring in the battery, starter and alternator and get them all tested on our older vechicles. When I rebuilding my engine, I brought my alternator in for a test and the store was "Like why are you doing this?" Well, it's off my motor, it's 20 plus years old, so I figured while it is convenient I'd have it done. Oh well, guess it wasn't convenient for them... :lol:

Sounds like you were using an old home town auto parts. A lot of times these guys made little effort to be competitive which has helped with the proliferation of national chains. I am thankful we have two good home town auto parts in our small town and no chains.

I have never seen either place be rude to a customer.

Mon May 21, 2012 4:01 am

There was an awesome Foreign Car FLAPS I used to use before he sold it. Specialized in European cars - especially VW's . He's the one that switched me from Fram to Mahn filters for my GTi when is was running high oil temps. Who knows how valuable that advice was?!
There is another small parts place featuring VW's, but really too far away to use, he said all the small guys like him will eventually go away. I used to pay by phone and he would leave the parts in a bag behind a bush out front for me. I always felt like I was completing a drug deal. :lol:
AutoZone employee quality varies with location. Luckily the NAPA near my work has a few highly skilled guys and one gal who is easily tied for the top employee there. Come to think of it, they would probably test my starter or alternator without flack, if they are set-up to do it.