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Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:28 pm

Coming from a land where vehicles of any sort rust readily, and where due to legislation and space considerations old and unwanted vehicles are crushed very quickly, Old cars of all types are disappearing fast. Very fast.

The supply of good Vanagons is not infinite. Many have disappeared, and no one will be making any more.

I firmly believe we should be more concerned with the preservation of those that remain. Sure we will see a natural wastage, those that are wrecked, or rust out; Breaking these for parts will only aid the survival of the remainder.
I'm no purist, many modifications greatly enhance the experience of day to day living with these things, my own Syncro Westy is running a Subaru EJ25, bigger tyres on Mercedes rims and hopefully will soon be sporting a home brewed rear tyre carrier and custom bumpers, all carefully designed to compliment the Vanagon, and built in such a way as to be completely removable, leaving little or no evidence that they have were ever fitted.
However I'm greatly saddened when I see some of the hack jobs out there.
Cutting holes in cabinets and sheetmetal, tearing out AC systems without a second thought, drilling holes and screwing stuff all over the inside and the exterior, the list goes on and on.
One day I fear we will start to regret this. Look now at the way radiused wheelarches and portholes,cheap repaints and sunroofs are viewed in the Split van world.

Instead of "Measure twice, cut once", perhaps we should be saying
"Think twice, put the Sawzall away."

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:03 pm

Noted.
But ok...for the sake of argument, who are we preserving the species for? Should I dampen my creativity and exuberance for modification for the benefit of some unknown buyer/collector at my estate sale when I eventually trade my wheels for wings?

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:05 pm

Tell that to the ones yanking their A/C components. Sorry, guys, I just had to say that.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:10 pm

Do we ever actually own anything? We come here with nothing and will leave with nothing. Perhaps we should look at ourselves actually as custodians rather than owners. Who knows who in the future we are preserving anything for? Our kids? Our grandkids? a museum someplace sometime?
BTW I'm not trying to be particularly philosophical, I just like old stuff, and regret the way we as a society behave, constantly wanting ever newer stuff and shunning the past wherever possible.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:24 pm

Your philosophy is fine for the people who can afford to keep the vanagon as original BUT realistically each person is responsible for whatever he/she decides to do. While it's nice to preserve something for the future in time, it's not realistic nor do I feel that it is a totally feasible responsibility. Each person makes their decisions, its not really for others to criticize nor to regimentate what they do with their property. And it is property, I agree that it is each person's responsibility to take care of property but that's as far as I'd care to go. Some have no future, nor future generation to follow them, some want to enjoy something now that was new 30 to 60 years ago. We are each different. :wink: There are far more important values to secure from deterioration.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:54 pm

We're not talking about an ecosystem here, or anything else that will contribute the longevity of mankind - it's just a pile of neatly stacked metal, rubber, and plastic. Really not a big deal. Things that were made by Man are all impermanent.

That said, my philosophy with regard to MY OWN VAN is in line with what you describe (i.e. no drastic undo-able changes and I plan to keep my non-functional AC intact even if I don't ever get around to fixing it).

I couldn't care less what other's do with theirs.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:57 pm

"In the long run we are all dead."
-John Maynard Keynes

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:18 pm

:bay_blue: I love the mods I've done, and so does my son, since he will get the bus some day all is good in the world! :D

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Overhead storage is a whole lot cooler than a/c. I can understand the other qualms but really who cares about a/c and why?

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:45 pm

MayorMcCheese wrote: Overhead storage is a whole lot cooler than a/c. I can understand the other qualms but really who cares about a/c and why?

Aaaack, fight thread drift! Keep it over here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=515722&sid=12165ce2b50a6ce9b61a30a2b1b3bae9

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:55 pm

This is a common debate on forums & lists for many other special interest vehicles.

Whether common or rare, affordable or expensive, there are always those in each camp and all shades in between on the subject of originality vs modification.

I personally like the idea of originality/preservation at least to the point of preserving the essential character of the vehicle (whatever that may be).

It's clear we do not all share a common vision of utility, adventure and fun and we each have to make individual choices based on our own view.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:37 pm

I've been hoping that this type of debate was still a ways off. I like splitties a lot, but the preciousness that is part of their scene is pretty tedious.

I agree with those that see these vehicles as nothing more than well engineered metal and plastic. I enjoy Vanagons because they are functional and mechanically simple (relatively) and really don't care about the "character" that much.

I'll just keep "preserving" mine by driving, maintaining and tinkering with it. I suppose when Vanagons get trendy enough to become a poser accessory/trophy I'll be priced out and move on to something else.

Somewhere down the line I suppose the new owners will have to listen to their restoration teams rage about the colour of paint I chose or the lift springs I put in. And as long as they keep driving it, thats ok with me. :wink:

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:51 pm

I personally bought my van to use it. I think that it is funny when people talk about restoring and not using vehicles like a syncro westy. These are camping machines made to be used!!! All the mods that I have done in my van have enhanced my experience in the vanagon.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:58 pm

Until we are down to a few remaining subjects in the world, there is no need to preserve. Preservation of all of the remaining Vanagons today would be incredibly and ridiculously redundant. There are still thousands of Vanagons on the road. I am not necessarily promoting senseless acts of butcherism, but there are still so many examples on the road that I do support the freedom to do what you will with your own van.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:07 pm

Until I start seeing 'rat rod' vanagons, I'm not concerned.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:49 pm

I love it when people stop me and say my 91 is a classic..... think we need a new term for cars that are in their 20s

Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:35 pm

They're not making Shelby Cobras anymore, either, yet you can go online right now and buy a brand-new reproduction.

The problem here is we are using these vehicles in an everyday, real-world-driver fashion, sure there's restorations ongoing, but they're not *that* valuable yet that we start dragging them out of the woods and swamps and doing concours restorations and then putting them in a glass case. Grab a few while you can, that's the only thing you can do... We're at the point now with Vanagons that splitties were in the early '80s... dime a dozen, mostly still being daily driven, with a few harcore enthusiasts really working to preserve them. If you have storage space, buy a few extras NOW. We've just witnessed. the bottom of the depreciation curve, they will now and forever start climbing in price.

I purchased a '63 deluxe walk-thru in El Paso TX in 1988 for $1500... all it needed was an interior and a paint job. REEEALLY wish I had been able to keep it. :oops:

Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm

If we're talking about this type of modification, then I totally agree with the OP.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=432802&highlight=shame

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Here in Vegas, certainly not a mecca for anything vw, they still come through the junkyard with some regularity.

Example: About 3-4 months ago there were 4 of them in one jy here, one of them a '91 having 68,000 miles on the odometer, body was perfect, not one spot of rust on it anywhere.

I pulled a bunch of parts off it, including power mirrors, and 30 days later it was crushed.

Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:35 am

tencentlife wrote: "In the long run we are all dead."
-John Maynard Keynes
...or the extremely short run, depending on your sense of time.