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Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:22 pm

Hello all, I am working on my Baja Project. (See pictures at the bottom) It was a baja bug that has been sitting in a field. I know that might raise a red flag but I couldn't find any rust worse than surface and it is already set up a lot of ways, plus it was totally free! :lol: My first major issue is that somebody cut the roll cage out of it in the cab itself but it remains in the engine compartment and in the front. I need to weld some tubing back in and I have never welded before. What do you think is the best way to learn? Tips would be great weather that be just dive in or take a class etc. Please feed the info!

Thanks guys!

MC

http://photobucket.com/NataliaVW

Wed Jun 13, 2012 3:31 pm

I would say just dive in if it were just sticking two pieces of metal together, but a roll cage is pretty serious business. I would either have someone that knows what they are doing do if for you, or have someone that knows what they are doing teach you. Welding is just like any other skill. It comes with lots of practice, so don't expect to practice on a couple scraps of metal and then be a professional.

No offense, just saying.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:00 pm

Yeah I have a Guy who has done his over the years helping me, I figured I could tackle the cosmetic welding myself though hopefully

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:11 pm

That sounds reasonable. Good luck!

Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:37 pm

Get scrap metal in the same gauge as what you intend to do on the car and practice. For the roll cage, get the tubing you intend to use and stitch some pieces together. See if you have a knack for it, or if it's just really frustrating and difficult for you. Do a few each time you get a chance and figure it all out.
You might be a natural.
You might need to farm it out.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 5:30 pm

+1
I messed around for a few days with a bunch of different pieces. I just have fluxcore, but I picked it up pretty quick.

So long as I'm putting together two pices of the same gauge, and I have a few pieces to get the welder dialed in, I don't have any problems. I'll burn through a lot of real thin stuff, but I think that's pretty much par for fluxcore.

Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:31 pm

If you just want just a couple of pieces welded in... Call professional welder with portable gear...

IF you want to "learn to weld" look up local adult school or junior college and take welding class ...

Yes you can be self taught and even a "blond can learn to MIG weld" but if you do professional quality work , you can earn a few dollars and recover cost of gear and make a few extra shekels for the cool beverage of choice at end of day...

IF you spend $500 for (minimal) welder something like a Hobart 140 (Made in USA) and a auto darkening helmet and a pair of good gloves and welding jacket you will have invested something like $750, you really need to learn to use it properly...

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/education-center/Pages/education-center.aspx

http://www.millerwelds.com/#tab-diy

http://www.hobartwelders.com/elearning/

http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/index.cfm

Personally I would really try to stay away from $200 cheap Chinese Republic Authentic Product (CRAP) machines...

Dale

Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:36 pm

It all depends on what kind of shop setup and welder you have. As welders go, MIG is by far the easiest, but you need to be indoors to get a good weld, otherwise your shielding gas will get blown away. Stick welding is not bad either, but if you get in to oxy/acetylyne welding or TIG, those are a little harder. I think it is worth it for anyone who works on their vehicles a lot to learn to weld, but at the same time, don't expect to learn overnight. Make sure and get plenty of practice before you start welding your roll cage.

Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:03 am

My Eastwood is probably made in China, but it's a pretty good machine. It's consistent, and the infinitely variable controls are the cats a$$. It's $200 less, but doesn't feel any different than the Licoln I checked out.
I can make good welds with fluxcore, probably great welds if I rented some gas. My buddy put cab corners and a few other peices on using the welder, and fluxcore, and didn't even have to use bondo it turned out so well.

Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:00 pm

One bit of advise...
Never learn how to weld building your first roll cage or it may be your last!

Casey

Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:26 am

x2
earthquake wrote: One bit of advise...
Never learn how to weld building your first roll cage or it may be your last!

Casey

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:46 am

X3 I do however recommend not using fluxcore wire as it is actually harder to weld with then shielding gas solid wire.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:26 pm

Earthquake's answer is the one to remember...

Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:09 am

Theres other topics on here about welding and welders - I think you may already have got some links. Tons of stuff on youtube. I JUST bought a mig yesterday myself.

As best as I have learned here's the big differences with flux core and gas. Someone PLEASE correct me if wrong.

Gas - cleaner weld, less spatter, pretty much ready for paint. Be prepared to spend $150-$200 just for a tank. Refills are only about $35.

Flux core - weld not as nice, lots of spatter, cleanliness of parts not as critical. Lots of slag that needs cleaned off. Cheaper.

I got a great deal on a welder (uses either) so I sprang for the tank.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:19 pm

Knowing how to weld is a very good skill to have. If you are going to be doing a lot of welding, then buy a proper one. You can self-learn to weld if you like to read textbooks on your own time. Attending a welding class is what I would recommend to have a really good foundation.

I recommend a LIncoln MIG 135/ 220 VOLTS -should be all you need to weld any steel part. A torch is nice for general farm work. :lol:

For mild steel cage work, you need to have the joints clean, and the welding root pass absolutely good. It could mean your life if you do it wrong. A cage is to protect your ass, so don't risk it if you don't know how.

If it is a chromoly cage, then only TIG process can do the weld-no other per rules.

Hope this helps.

Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:05 pm

You don't have to read anymore...just watch videos.

Welding with a mig you have to get all the rust, paint and other yuck off both bits of metal you are working on.

The suggestion on getting scrap to play with is very good...it will suck if you start blowing holes in something you don't want to.

And remember the first rule of welding....like another fun activity it is nothing without penetration. :P

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:28 am

With proper joint set up 100% penetration is easy to achive.. Open root groove weld for instance.. It doesn't really depend on the machine dispite all the BS you'll see in ads about how thick of material it will suposedly weld. You just put a bevel on each part of the joint to be welded, then flatten the tip of the bevels and lay the joint with a gap approx the thickness of the electrode being used and weld (usually in a few well placed passes). If possible you could then back gouge the other side and weld the gouge. Poof 100% penetration..

Get yourself a good grinder and alot of disks

There's alot more to welding than just squirting some metal outta a SMAW.. It takes alot of time to learn to weld. I took two 800 hour AWS welding classes (entry and advanced) and wasn't anywhere near ready to weld. I really learned the most at the shipyard working with dirty wet material and equipment.

I wouldn't even consider welding a cage for the first time... Even everyone above missed one VERY important detail.. AC welders suck! Odds are if you find a cheap SMAW its gonna be AC, for a cage you'll want a DC welder.

In a AC welder the current is constantly changing direction, just as the weld is getting a good hold the current reverses. Great for aluminium..

In a DC welder the current is always traveling the same direction. You can set the electrode (gun or stick) to positive or negitive and each one has thier reasons for being used (has to do with penitration). Only draw back is eventually the material builds a magnetic field and ends up in arc wander. You just stop for a sec and the arc stops wondering, odds are you'll not have a problem due to restarts..

If welding was easy than welders wouldn't make much money and/or everyone would do it.

Though the vw beetle seems to roll really well... I've heard of alot of storys with them being fine after a roll over. So maybe it'd be an alright starting point to learn.
Just my 02 cents

Greg

Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:47 am

Of course reading is a good skill to have too. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And the capacity of the welding machine does matter. I do not think a 110V MIG will weld bridge, but a 350 AMP MIG can!

Just because you are able to lay a weld bead after you gouge out the backside of the plated does not always mean a strong weld. The machine has to have enough power to heat up the area and fuse the materials and welding puddle as homogenous. Otherwise, you end up with a cold-weld.

If I am welding a 1/2 inch plate, I have a 3-phase 350 AMP mig for that. A similar welder w/ a 220 Volt 1-phase source 250 AMP will also be able to weld that. POint is you have to have enough capacity in the machine to weld the materials.

I do not think I will weld an overhead crane w/ a 110Volt unit. You will likely have the metal pieces fall on your ass.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:16 am

110V should do a pretty decent job on tubing though right?

I've never had an issue with getting things hot, and I just have a smaller MIG for doing little odds and ends.

Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:04 pm

This is my last post on this topic. I can't stress enough to make sure you have yourself a DC welder. If you're able to switch between DCEN and DCEP then it's DC (will say inside normally where the wire goes). I don't have the time to waste debating with someone who clearly doesn't know... There is a difference between a hobby welder and a pro welder.. Safety first.. Get on the welding forums, google it. There's a few good ones where the guys actually know what you're talkin about.. They could set you in a good/smart/safe direction instead of just buying the biggest/baddest welder on the market.

From my experiance you'll have a tough time finding a welder with a automatic hood. While they're spiffy and everything there IS a gap when it flashes on. While it doesn't seem like much it DOES add up. I've spent one day welding with one and will NEVER do it again. That hood costed $500! Was the cat's meow, not only senses light but also magnetic field from welding. That way when you go around a pipe it doesn't just blink off. Your eyes are important, only get one set of them. Invest in a hood with a large lense and NEVER use below a a 10. Infact I weld with a 12...

Just think.. If I gave you a GTAW with square wave would that do you any good? Or how about a GMAW with pulse? Could you set it and weld it? Be a waste huh?

Clearly your job isn't welding... While I haven't welded a bridge with a 110v welder I have welded a few fairys, barges and HUGE fishing vessels.. I think you'll find the metals there pretty thick. Funny you put the crane statement on there... My first welding project was a overhead bridge crane. Did it with a 110v GMAW, guess what? Didn't fall down.. The volts and amps don't have much to do with eachother. There's a few 110v GMAW at the shipyard, yes you can weld up a bridge if you wanted to. It's all about joint setup and the welder's skill.. plus the welder must be a DC inverter.

You really should weld a few plates up and smash them appart (against the weld) and check your penetration. Make the plate in the shape of an L, just weld one side. When you break it appart you can see how much weld actually sticks to each side. Just practice practice.

When you increase the voltage (on the machine, NOT the plug in) it pushes the weld harder. You use more voltage in a overhead weld than you do on a flat weld.

When you increase the amps you increase heat. Heat helps burn out contaminations.. Also increases penetration. If you set up a joint in a groove weld than what's there to penetrate? Look into it... Open root groove weld and you'll see your statement is sorta silly.

To the OP.. See what I mean about taking a few classes for welding? You'll learn all this in a AWS class (American Welding Society). Most people don't hae a clue what's going on (hence the post above).

Of course the bigger the power plug in the more power you can run... Have to consider what you can afford. Number one most important thing for steel is to get yourself a DC welder. Miller makes a few buzz boxes that are DC and affordable (run off 110v). Alot of people would struggle to pay an electritrion to wire the 230v.

You can't read your way through welding, just aint gonna happen. It takes time, just runing bead after bead.

BTW I certified in 7018 SMAW 4G up to 1" thick, 7018 SMAW 6G same thickness up to 36" round (IIRC) and GMAW E71T11 4G unlimited thickness. Not just another guy spouting what I've read on the internet.

nsracing wrote: Of course reading is a good skill to have too. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

And the capacity of the welding machine does matter. I do not think a 110V MIG will weld bridge, but a 350 AMP MIG can!

Just because you are able to lay a weld bead after you gouge out the backside of the plated does not always mean a strong weld. The machine has to have enough power to heat up the area and fuse the materials and welding puddle as homogenous. Otherwise, you end up with a cold-weld.

If I am welding a 1/2 inch plate, I have a 3-phase 350 AMP mig for that. A similar welder w/ a 220 Volt 1-phase source 250 AMP will also be able to weld that. POint is you have to have enough capacity in the machine to weld the materials.

I do not think I will weld an overhead crane w/ a 110Volt unit. You will likely have the metal pieces fall on your ass.