TheSamba.com :: View topic - Turn signals don't work. Indicator stays green

Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:23 pm

I have a 1974 bug and the turn signals aren't working. I've checked the bulbs, fuses, and replaced the relay. Still nothing. The indicator stays solid green when I flip the steering wheel switch. The hazards work the same way. Headlights are fine.

Thoughts? Keep in mind, I've driven this car for 20 years but I'm pretty naive when it comes to repairs. (I've just always treated it like my baby so repairs have been minimal.)

Oh yeah, one more clue. It did this about a year ago and then just started working again. Can't say if it was after hitting a bump or what but this time it isn't fixing itself. :)

Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Well I have no definitive answer for you, but my Beetle flashers/turn signal would work at times and light up solid at times too(it would act up daily). I needed to replace the turn switch because when I bought it there was only 1 inch of lever left sticking out of the housing.

Since I have replace the switch, I have had no problems at all......over a week now!

Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:19 pm

First, disconnect the turn indicator bulb in the speedo. Don't let the loose wire touch anything. Do the turn signals and flasher work now?
Second test, with the indicator bulb still disconnected, bypass the flasher relay. There are three or four wires connected to the flasher relay. One is the brown ground wire, ignore it. Also ignore the wire that runs to the turn indicator bulb. With a jumper wire, jumper the remaining two wires together. This will bypass the flasher relay. Now when you turn on the turn signals or E-flasher they will not blink, but should still work. If they do not work, your problem is elsewhere.

Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:52 pm

Thanks so much Ashman40, it is late here so I won't be able to work on it tonight. however, I will jump on it soon.

Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:04 pm

or just check the bulbs in the turnsignal housings and tailights.....and dont forget to use dielectric grease if you do..

Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:24 pm

if it stays on, i'd first think its the flasher relay. a blown bulb will cause a fast-flash.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:54 am

How do I test this:

passenger turn signals working

driver signals (left) do not (speedo light wont flash)

found contiuity at switch wire for left -- yet not at trunk T

lights solid when parking lights

anyone dealt w/ this? thx

early 73 super

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:34 am

peacejones wrote: driver signals (left) do not (speedo light wont flash)

found contiuity at switch wire for left -- yet not at trunk T
Are you saying there is power at the turn signal switch LEFT output while the switch is in the LEFT TURN position and the ignition is ON... but when you test the junction where the black/white wires come together there is no power??

Or did you use an ohm tester to confirm current flows through the turn signal switch from the black/green/white wire to the black/white wire while the switch is in the LEFT TURN position?

peacejones wrote: lights solid when parking lights
Does "lights solid" mean the turn signal light is ON (non-blinking) when the parking light is ON... or did you mean the left turn signal "works normally" while the parking lights are ON?

Have you checked that the proper bulb is installed? I believe all the stock tail lights used a dual-filament bulb in the tail lights for the parking+turn signal lights. If someone accidentally installed a single filament bulb in the dual-filament socket you might get some weird results.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:48 am

flashers Standard Beetle or SUPER? x2 wrong lamps...
dont forget that bulbs can short. unscrew them all and try them 1 by one.
they can short inside with the bond breaks (factory glue)
first off the flasher is electronic, and uses a R/C timing device with transistors
to set the flash rate. so works under almost all conditions. but not a short.
ill assume its wired right only ... it used to work....
the flasher has a load detector in the J2 flasher. if the load shorts
the load detector sticks on, and the k6 indicators sticks on.
this pin is called KBL. on J2 , got that pin?
some years dont have that, so i need car type, super or standard.
and is that a 74 year model or 74 mfg date. 74 is a big transitional year.
so not telling the exact model of car make this hard.
here is a 74 Super
M5/6/7/8 are lamps
e2 is with switch
k6 is the indicator
and J2 is the flasher , just 2 wires on this Super. (no KBL pins)

look carefully at wire 49a. this is flash current from J2
49 is hot key on. all the time.
the flasher provides flash current to 49a
the flasher must have a good ground at 31 or it will fail.
49 a feeds the E2 signal switch and the E2 emg. flasher switch.
when you close the E2 it sends flashing current to the m5/6/7/8 set of bulbs.
1 pair, as lever dictates.

note this year, k5 is blink indicator and K6 is emg. indicator.
do you have both? k5 and k6?

one way to test this is easy.
unplug 49a from the flasher
make up a test lamp with 2 alligator clicks, just like you do with setting
points static timing. (a passive 12v test lamp, a tool)
5 parts to make up one (i use old side light markers off wrecked cars,with pig tails...)
a 12v .5amp lamp a #GE194 side lamp?
2 wires
2 alligator clips.
connect one clip to 49a on the K2
connect the other to ground

now key on
the lamp will flash continuously. (just with key switch)
this one tests cuts the problem in half (navy doctrine.) known as a binary search tactic.
if it dont flash , the that too is simple
no ground to flasher 31 (add one see if that wakes it up)
no power to flasher. 49 (measure it) 12v key on.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/74-up113wiring.jpg

key facts
KBL cars, the indicator will not flash with zero or 1 lamp screwed, in. (ext.lamps work pefect and you can hear it click)
with 2 lamps installed, or more it flashes and so do all ext. lamps. as appropriate to mode..

the non KBL cars
the indicator flashes even with 1 lamp installed (its electronic and does that)
1 or more.

dash K5 and k6 missing, but add them . one for turns and 1 for emg.

..

Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:51 am

you want to hijack it before the OP gets fixed , really?
please start your own post. or wait for solved.

peacejones wrote: How do I test this:

passenger turn signals working

driver signals (left) do not (speedo light wont flash)
bad grounds. at lamps. open wires to same....shorted lamps. change the lamps from right to left.

found continuity at switch wire for left -- yet not at trunk T

lights solid when parking lights

anyone dealt w/ this? thx

early 73 super

Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:59 am

Dear CandyMustang66,

I love your advice and would really like to try it but you have me so lost. I wish I knew more about what you are saying because I'd love to never have anyone else's hands touch my bug but unfortunately I come with not background so can you dumb it down a bit? For instance, what is step one?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:01 am

ashman40 wrote: First, disconnect the turn indicator bulb in the speedo. Don't let the loose wire touch anything. Do the turn signals and flasher work now?
Can you walk me through this?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:21 am

Michelehart wrote: ashman40 wrote: First, disconnect the turn indicator bulb in the speedo. Don't let the loose wire touch anything. Do the turn signals and flasher work now?
Can you walk me through this?

The speedometer has bulbs that plug into the back of it. One of those (bottom center?) is the speedo.

So, pull that one out of the speedo, and set it on a rag so it doesnt have ground.

Try it again, and see what happens.

Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:37 am

Are you referring to the bulbs for the warning lights, turn signal indicator, and back-lit light?

Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:44 pm

Michelehart wrote: Are you referring to the bulbs for the warning lights, turn signal indicator, and back-lit light?
Yes!

turn indicator bulb = turn signal indicator light

Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:53 pm

target audience?
when i was in boy scouts, they made me make a generator and a motor..
so that is my lowest point i can go.... \

in a live conversation i can see that?
"connect 2 wires to a battery and a light bulb , draws a blank stare. oops.
so i say want to learn? and show you, the forum is not a good place to boot strap up from zero experience.... (on topic) steep learning curve...

i will try one more...
the blinkers are just , over glorified flash lights, nothing more....
In UK a TORCH. ( 4 parts, battery, wire, lamp and a switch)

the power starts at the battery + goes to the flasher (pretend that part is the switch on the flash light.

then the flasher sends flashing 12v (0,12,0,12v ) to the STALK lever.
the lever blocks the flow of current in the center position.
when you select the left turn, (a contact closes)
the dash indicator flashes. (may not with 4 lug flasher, see why later.)
and both left lamps FLASH..
this happens because the flasher now sends current to the lamp ,
passes trough the filament (it glows white hot) and to ground and that rusty
ground screw passes current to the minus battery lug.
the front has 2 rusty STUDS (nuts and star washers) and the rear 5. (ouch)

anything that blocks this path, kill the them all or just 1. (depends in wire routing)
the emg flasher, uses the same parts, but sends current to all 5 lamps at once. so get that going first. i say. 1 lamp at a time.

that is an open circuit. when one or all die, usually.
now consider a short. the short usually blows the 8 amp fuse.
so, if its bypassed the short can cause a wire fire.
but usually this just overloads the flasher , because it is a transistor flasher.
so it gets too hot. and may burn out. if it burns it can short , if it does short
you have 2 shorts, and a blown fuse.

considering all the possibles, then remove all the lamps and try them 1 by one. get one to work, then more... walk then run.

if the flasher is 4 lug, in the speedo driver inductor will go dead but the
one lamp connected will flash. that is because the flasher is electronic.
it can flash 1 or 5 lamps.
the bulbs can short in side. so make sure you test them 1 by 1.

the 4 wire flasher needs 2 lamps working or the driver indicator goes dead
this is a FEATURE not BUG, it allow the driver to know, one lamp is dead.
some lamp flashers cloned dont work right at all, on the dash indicator part.
the part is called KBL. (german for Krap Blink lights ,are dead.) :twisted:
so i wire it to pin 49a.

all this assume the car is still wired and stock.
id get the flasher working on 1 lamp, try each corner on lamp at a time.
if that fails, I hot wire it and measure the lamp current. but i have that tool.
if the lamps work hot wired. the flasher is bad.
or the power to it is bad at pin 49. (measure it, key on, 12vdc)
some flashers are marked just + , and not 49.
that is power input.

Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:50 pm

My turn signals sometimes don't work. I'll move the turn signal lever and the signal light in the speedo will just go solid green. I found out that it's something to do with the emergency flasher switch. If this happens I just have to push in slightly or pull out slightly (we're talking like a fraction of a mm) and my turn signals work again.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:13 pm

DrummerDaveB wrote:
The speedometer has bulbs that plug into the back of it. One of those (bottom center?) is the speedo.

So, pull that one out of the speedo, and set it on a rag so it doesnt have ground.

Try it again, and see what happens.

I removed the turn signal indicator bulb and tried the signal again. Still nothing.

Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:20 pm

mclumber1 wrote: My turn signals sometimes don't work. I'll move the turn signal lever and the signal light in the speedo will just go solid green. I found out that it's something to do with the emergency flasher switch. If this happens I just have to push in slightly or pull out slightly (we're talking like a fraction of a mm) and my turn signals work again.

I think you may be onto something. I seem to remember my flasher switch acting up. I remember my son asking me to turn it on so when I pulled the switch I had to jiggle it just a bit to get them to come. They came on right after that and I never had any other problems so I forgot all about it.

Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:00 am

Okay, after an hour of tinkering around I have some new information.

1. Turn indicator stays solid when switch is on.
2. headlights, brake, and reverse lights work correctly.
3. Rear turn lights stay solid (on) as soon as I turn on ignition, regardless if the turn signal switch is on or off.
4. Used 2 different relays so I know it isn't that.
5. Tested all bulbs and they all work.