TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:47 pm

I have two set of seats.

The first I think is an early Pre-A.

The second looks to me like a 356A.

What are the specific years for each seat style?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:28 pm

Mr.O'Kelly:

I think you're in the ballpark with the older seat, but while condition complicates things, the newer pair appear to be of the thinner back version, dating them as from a B or C.

The only way to be sure of vintage is to check inside the hinge assemblies for a fabrication date usually found there. Some disassembly required.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:24 am

From my understanding the early T1 'A' had the thicker seat uprights and the T2 58 and 59 cars had the thinner version which continued on to the later models.

My 59 seat seems to look similar in size to the one you show. As said above they are date stamped or mine are.

Roy

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:28 am

Just looking at your photo again of the later seat, I notice it has phillips screws on the chrome recliner support. On mine they are just chrome slotted screws so again as mentioned above the seat is probably T5 or 6 unless for some reason those screws were changed.

Roy

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:38 pm

I took a closer look at my "matched" set and they are a bit different. Here is a side by side comparison. The biggest difference is one has some clips to hold down the back.

When did the clips to hold the back rest in place start? The clips belong to the seat in the rear of the lower photo

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:59 pm

The later seats are 356C seats (356C-unique recliner supports). Only the passenger seat has the locking seatback, as found on '62-'65 T6 cars. The covers look like they were fabricated out of '66 VW seat material; they are different than those found on late (T6) 356Bs.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:00 pm

The "boomerang" non-reclining hinges were D and Roadster, so those are late A and early B as baseline equipment, reclining seats being an option (and typical). The difference is that the examples shown had the seat back material covering the upper part of the "boomerang," which isn't original.

The other set is C, as there are no center pivots showing, the outer chrome is flat and there are gray plastic inner covers for the recliner mechanisms showing in one picture. The latches were on the passenger side seat, none (usually) on the driver's side. Those latches held the back from folding but did not influence the reclining function.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:13 pm

bbspdstr wrote: The "boomerang" non-reclining hinges were D and Roadster, so those are late A and early B as baseline equipment, reclining seats being an option (and typical). The difference is that the examples shown had the seat back material covering the upper part of the "boomerang," which isn't original.

So you think these are Baseline A or early B and not earlier? Here are a few more photos of the wood in the bottoms.

Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:07 am

bbspdstr wrote: The other set is C...

Hi Bruce,

And late C at that (because of the recliner knob). In fact, it could actually be a 911/912 seat so Brian should measure the width since early 911/912 seats look the same as 356, but do not fit in a 356.

Regards,

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:07 am

According to Brett Johnson, through 1951, the top of the seat hinges were covered as the one you show here, Brian. The hinge also looks the same. Of course, that doesn't mean someone didn't recover a later Pre-A seat this way by "accident."

There is an excellent picture of this in the Pictorial Guide on page 32, and he discusses it in more detail in Restorer's Guide on page 129 (if you have those).

Is the back of the seat top flatter than the slightly curved back of your other seats? If so, it may be an early Pre-A! Finding a date on the inside of the hinge would seal the deal.

Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:21 am

Frank parted out a 51 and has the tranny and front beam both drum to drum. So keeping the seats to wouldn't be much of a surprise.

I checked the backs and they are flat.

Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:11 pm

jjjjack wrote: According to Brett Johnson, through 1951, the top of the seat hinges were covered as the one you show here, Brian. The hinge also looks the same. Of course, that doesn't mean someone didn't recover a later Pre-A seat this way by "accident."

Sorry, I sold a '51 to Brett Johnson and it didn't have seats. My 3 '53s had recliners and don't remember seeing a "boomerang" on anything prior to A. I only know Bruce, not Jack....about seats.
:oops:
There is an excellent picture of this in the Pictorial Guide on page 32, and he discusses it in more detail in Restorer's Guide on page 129 (if you have those).

I have those.....at the shop. I trusted the seat-of-my-pants reaction to weak photos and what the seat bottom thickness and back's covering shows, and that's that they were recovered. Wood bases, in my own limited experience, took the early tracks, and those were held on by wood screws. Still, I'm always willing to be corrected as part of any on-going learning process.

Is the back of the seat top flatter than the slightly curved back of your other seats? If so, it may be an early Pre-A! Finding a date on the inside of the hinge would seal the deal.
Perhaps. the machine screw spacing is different on really early seats/recliners.......but like we are trying to remind folks to remember about anything 356; "Never say never and never say always."

Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:29 pm

The recliners on the later seat look just like 912 recliners. My T-6B has a raised area on the recliners, not sure what C's look like, I assume the same as 912? Are the seats interchangeable between Cs and 912s?

Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:17 am

Braukuche wrote: Are the seats interchangeable between Cs and 912s?

No they are not. The 911/912 seats are wider and will not fit in a 356.

Regards,

Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:18 am

bbspdstr wrote: "Never say never and never say always."

Absolutely! <-- pun intended :D

FYI, here's a good set of images of the various recliners:

http://porsche356registry.org/resources/tech-artic...types.html

Unfortunately it pretty much starts with the As, so it doesn't address non-recliners.

Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:22 am

I hope the above scan of the early parts book appears here. I show this as an enlargement of the same in Brett's book. I think it's important to learn something new every day (me), like to pay attention to books about things never seen or noticed in person, like early seat details in 356s. Seriously, I had 'sister' '53 Coupes (51604/51605) photo'd in Brett's early edition book) and a '53 Cabriolet (for a brief time in the '60s and I forget the number)...and all had reclining seats. Brett's book says that was a "maybe" so who knows now what that story was? Hell, Brett and I still disagree about whether I sold him my naked '51 (that became his vintage racer) for $75 (me) or $100 (him). (I think that type of "rip-off" is discussed on another site, keeping Adam busy.)
The Pictorial Guide (hardback) has a gray '55 on page 49 (and other pages) that I did for Brett and the bare shell of that same car is on the dust jacket of the Rev.II Restorer's Guide, taken by me from a bucket-truck, high above.
Speaking of "seat of the pants"....my painter and bodyman involved in that 356 were on the ground moving the car around for best light in a gravel lot. I looked down after getting a meter reading and setting the 35mm camera (pre-Digital in '90) and those two had turned the sunroof into a "moon" roof! I got a shot of the 4 cheeks filling that rectangle and sent it to Brett but have no idea what he did with it, but I about fell out of the bucket from laughing! (Hey, we were young back then!)
To the teachers in this thread, I apologize for not doing my homework before I took the test.

-Baker, B.

Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:37 am

That's really interesting that the parts diagram shows 2 types of fixed seat!

On my '53 Coupe 51576, the drivers seat is fixed and the passenger reclines. Of course this could have easily been changed over the years, and my car certainly isn't untouched, LOL. BUT, my COA does say "Reclining Seat" (non-plural) in the options category.

These cars are a never ending source of minor surprise!

Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:53 pm

Sebastian Gaeta wrote: Braukuche wrote: Are the seats interchangeable between Cs and 912s?

No they are not. The 911/912 seats are wider and will not fit in a 356.

Regards,
Can you throw out some differences in dimensions? I think I have some 1965 356C seats but they might also be 1967 911.
Jeff

Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:03 pm

Sebastian Gaeta wrote: Braukuche wrote: Are the seats interchangeable between Cs and 912s?

No they are not. The 911/912 seats are wider and will not fit in a 356.

Regards,
I think the bottoms are 1967.
Jeff

Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:19 am

That non-reclining seat with the banana-shaped hinge is definitely Pre-A. These were standard on '53 and earlier cars. The clincher is the wood frame at the bottom of the seat. That particular seat looks like it is '50 or '51 because of the way the upholstery is mounted over it. By '52 they mounted it on the outside of the upholstery with longer wood trim strips and by '53, they just mounted it directly to the seat back just like your later seats.

Two things you can do. Look at the bottom of the seat and see if there are some hand-written numbers on the wood frame. This should be either the chassis number or the last 3 digits of the chassis number. Also, the hinges themselves likely have a date stamped into them (this is true for the later seats as well). It may be something like 04 53 in square type. This will give a date of manufacture.