TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help. On a trip. Shifting troubles...ideas?

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:25 pm

Hey guys. Got my Westy a few months ago and on my first road trip. Have the receipt from po for rebuilt trans and new clutch. Always shifts fine no problems. Today going upabd over some mountains and slow windy turns. Go to downshift from third to second and wont go into any gears. Same trying to go from second to ire first. Came to a complre stop and pumped the clutch several times then shifts all gears no problem. Happened several times. Fine on flat land. Have no clue. Hoping not serious

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:02 pm

I would go have a look at your clutch slave, bolts are tight, line is sealed, and then bleed it. Beyond that I have no clue. Good luck.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:15 pm

Does the clutch pedal feel different when you lose your gears? Issue may be failing clutch master or slave cylinder. Issue could be a leak in clutch hydraulic system, but likely not. Still. Check and keep an eye on your brake fluid level. (reservoir is under instrument cluster cover)

When it happens again, if safe to do so , try not to pump the clutch. IF possible, pull over to a level safe spot, then

- put e-brake on
- shut OFF the engine
- leave transmission in gear
- block the wheels

then have someone push the clutch pedal while you watch the clutch operating lever on driver side of transmission. (it's above and behind the drive shaft) I'm not certain how far the lever normally moves, but it should move down when clutch pedal pushed down. You don't have to crawl too far under the van to see this. Remember; safety first!

You should travel with a Bentley manual, or if air cooled, a Haynes should suffice. Speaking of which.....

What year Westy?

Neil.

driver side of transmission. Clutch operating arm lower than normal. Yours should NOT look like that.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:32 pm

Its an 84. Dont remember if it feels different. Taking the flat lands home. Any idea why it seem be only under load ?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:21 am

vairken wrote: Its an 84. Dont remember if it feels different. Taking the flat lands home. Any idea why it seem be only under load ?

No, not really but....

If it's happening consistently under more of a load (hills)....

A long shot, but if the pilot bearing is really worn or toast maybe being under load causes the input shaft to move thus cause poor or no shifting? I know that on a used transmission, there's normally some lateral play in the input shaft. Maybe that wouldn't be present on a rebuilt though.

Again, that's a long shot. Tossing it out there as you wrote of a "new clutch" install. The pilot bearing is an easy item to overlook when doing that job.

Neil.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:03 am

My 1st thought is the clutch hydraulics as others have stated. I've been on road trips with a failing slave cylinder (weeping internally). Keep the reservoir topped up and pump the clutch pedal when you have to use it.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:07 am

Quote: Go to downshift from third to second and wont go into any gears. Same trying to go from second to ire first. Came to a complre stop and pumped the clutch several times then shifts all gears no problem.

Does ' won't go into any gear mean the gear stick can not be pushed forward or back ?

Did you have the same problem after you ahve stopped and before you " pumped the clutch several times " ?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:48 am

Correct steve it does not go forward or back even after I have come to a complete stop and before pumping the clutch. Shifted down from third and then gets stuck in neutral

Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:06 am

Ok, so the clutch does not disengage. Because you can disengage after pumping a few times, so the clutch is likely OK but either the clutch master or the slave is the problem. First check to see if both screws and nuts to secure the slave cylinder is there ( the Tin top I bought has a missing screw so the clutch can not disengage, the reason why I got it for a good price ). You can check from the engine bay for this. one screw is visible there and the other you can feel it by hand. Look at the photo posted by Vanagon Nut for the location of the slave. If the screws are there, then there is air in the system. You did not say if you have check the brake fluid level but even if you add fluid now, its too late. Since you are on the road, I would suggest just bleed the clutch. Are you alone or there is some one who can press the clutch pedal while you loosen the bleed screw of the slave ?

Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:16 pm

Yes the fluid reservoir is full. I am not alone but nor did I bring any tools. My bad. I should know better. Will check the screws. Only got the Westy 3 months ago and did not know the fluid res was under the dash cover. Hoping I will get home ok or should I stop and get bled? Mostly flat home with the exception of mount hood pass. Not slow and windy.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:23 pm

I had my brakes and clutch flushed and power-bled at a local non-VW (Meineke) shop a few months ago for $75.

Mike

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:01 pm

Only need a wrench to bleed the slave but I forgot what size it is ( 6mm , 7mm or 8mm ? ). You can limp home easily if there is not much traffic on the road and no traffic light. Just put it in 2nd gear and start the engine. I did this when the clutch cable on my Porsche 911 broke.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:21 pm

vairken wrote: Yes the fluid reservoir is full. I am not alone but nor did I bring any tools....

Only tool you really need for a clutch bleed is a 7mm combination wrench.

I still carry the one I bought in Corydon Indiana when my clutch needed bleeding 1800 miles from home.

You can do a down & dirty bleed w/o a tube or catch bottle if you're willing to let a bit of the fluid spill on the ground. May not need much of a bleed since it had been okay until recently but you will probably want to also have a bottle of hydraulic fluid to top up the reservoir.

You can drive all day with no clutch though that isn't much fun so maybe get a wrench & try a bleed.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:24 pm

Thanks guys. Although it shifts fine on flat land going to stop in the first town I come to and get a 7mm and some fluid. Out in the middle of nowhere camping but only 300 miles from home. Good lesson here. Get a tool box and a manual for the westy.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:17 pm

So if bleeding the clutch does not fix the problem is replacing the slave or master cylinder a difficult job for a beginner ? Cost to have it done ? Getting broken in to the life of westy ownership

Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:16 pm

Not difficult at all but could be messy when you undo the connections to the master cylinder. You don't even need to bleed the brake after the replacement of the cylinders and refilling of the reservoir if it works OK now. Just make sure you do a dry fit of the master cylinder first so you can adjust the length of the push rod per Bentley before putting everything back. The more difficult part is to put in the bolts for the slave cylinder.

Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:35 pm

stevey88 wrote: Not difficult at all but could be messy when you undo the connections to the master cylinder. ....

Be sure to use flare nut wrenches on this job. I don't recall the nut sizes but IIRC, the clutch line is a larger OD than the brake lines, so a larger nut would be present. Possibly larger than the bleeder screw on the slave cylinder. Use flare nut wrenches on bleeder screws and unions to hydraulic parts. They are a good investment.

And.....

Soak all applicable nuts and bleeders with good quality penetrating fluid. If possible, do this several times a day, days before the job. Kroil is one name to search here.

Scrub loose dirt and rust away from fasteners involved with a small wire brush along with applying penetrating fluid.

Neil.