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Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:53 am

Hey,

I have broken down in Panama on my Chile to Alaska trip and I am reabuilding the top end due to a blown piston and some other stuff.

Anyways, parts are hard to come by and the only thing I could get my hands on here was some Silicone gasket paste that is NOT SUITABLE FOR HEAD GASKETS. I think because it is not resistent to Gasoline.

I have to use it anyway as I have no choice.

How far do you think I will get before I have to take the heads off again? I am hoping to make it to mexico.

Does a gasoline resistent silicone gasket paste exist in your part of the world? Maybe I can find it in Central America.

Thanks

Ben

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Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:23 am

If this is the same Ben that was rebuilding the engine of your Brazilian bus under a tree in Panama the other day you don't need any head gaskets. To seal the cylinders to the heads you lap each barrel into the head with valve lapping compound, wash it all off and then assemble it with no sealant.

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:41 pm

busdaddy

Yes, same Ben. I suggested he post in the Bus Forum to get some more eyes on his probems.

I'm living two blocks from where is so I've been checking in on him. Unfortunately, I can't help much with the mechanical aspect.

The other issue (we think) is the timing, so once he gets the engine going and back in he needs to make sure the timing is set properly. But, with a Brazillian engine he's not sure if he should be using the same settings from the Haynes Manual that he has.

He mentioned to me there were some questions as to what type of distributor he was running - here's what's on the side of it. Hopefully it makes sense to someone.

ind 8230087017
04090520520
166

It's a 1992 Brazillian bus with a 1600cc engine

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Please post the engine code so we can look it up to see how we can help.

Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:47 pm

okay - it'll be a few minutes

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:05 pm

If he had cylinder head gaskets and he takes them out, he will need to use cylinder base shims. He should also check his head volume and calculate his compression ratio. Not hard to do, all he needs is a shringe from a pharmacy.

He needs to set the timing a 28-30° BTDC at 3500+ rpm with the hoses off. Forget what the book says as that applies to new engines with all the correct non worn out parts.

Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:31 pm

Thanks, I'll pass along the info.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:48 am

Only use some gasket sealer on the base of the cylinder where it meets up the engine block. No gasket sealer is needed between the cylinder and cylinder head. If there were metal rings in there (between cylinder and head), take them out, and on the other side do the same. There may or may not be deck height shims under the cylinders between the cylinder and engine block.

You'll probably need to round up a timing gun, but!! you can set it statically, which you can do using your tail light (no joke!), "for right now"

And we'll probably need an outside and inside picture with cap off to ID the distributor.

But, does it have a vacuum canister on the side? If so, does it have one or two nipples to hook up?

Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:16 am

Ian wrote: ! you can set it statically, which you can do using your tail light

That's funny, Muir didn't think of that. :lol:

Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:38 am

Ian wrote: ! you can set it statically, which you can do using your tail light

What a great idea... in fact... if you were stuck by the side of the road there's lots of issues you could troubleshoot using a tail light, backup lights, etc as a test lamp.

Excellent stuff... gonna file that in the McGyver part of my brain for sure. :D :D

Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:39 pm

nathansnathan wrote: Ian wrote: ! you can set it statically, which you can do using your tail light

That's funny, Muir didn't think of that. :lol:

The only tool you need to set the timing statically is a 10mm wrench to loosen the long nut that keeps the distributor from turning.

Pull the coil wire at the distributor and set it near a ground and with the ignition on turn the engine over. The wire will spark when you turn the engine, you can just leave your tail lights alone.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:43 pm

Obviously a test lamp would be the best way.

But I definitely prefer to have a light and not rely on just using the spark.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:57 pm

Okay, here are some pics from Ben's engine and distributor. Looks like he's almost got it back together - having some trouble with bolts going back into where they came from.

Seems like the timing will be the next big issue - need to get it right.

was having trouble getting the bolt back into the hole on the right

Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:59 pm

sorry forgot, engine code - UG081383

Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:02 pm

my instinct says to ditch the electronic ignition and get a points style distributor. any kind will do as long as it has points. you may be able to get a set of points which will fit in that distributor, if you remove the rotor and the electronic ignition inside.

i simply do not like the uncertainty presented with electronic ignition. points are a guaranteed mechanical entity which will present no trouble when installed and adjusted properly.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:21 pm

if you can tear your distributor down this far then you can slap in some points and a condensor and basically be on your way. the rotor will pop off by hand just give it a gentle pull and the electronic ignition should initially slip off and then have a plate that may be attached with a little screw.

part of the points sit in a little hole to be in the correct position and the screw goes in a little hole opposite it on the plate in the distributor.

don't lose the little points screw. if you use one too long it mucks up the mechanism, i see it happen from time to time.

you're probably going to need to bust out a valve adjustment real quick since the rocker and stuff has been off, so let us know about that because it's real important too.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:02 pm

I'm getting the impression that adding points to the mix here will result in him never leaving Panama, I say leave it as is, time it right and pick up an 043 distributor in Mexico.
If it ain't broke........

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:12 pm

busdaddy wrote: I'm getting the impression that adding points to the mix here will result in him never leaving Panama, I say leave it as is, time it right and pick up an 043 distributor in Mexico.
If it ain't broke........
Ditto, leave it as is since evidently it has been working all this time. There is a good chance the timing was messed up and might have caused the prior piston problem. So timing needs to be set right but that's totally different than points or the electronic ignition topic.
Use the coil wire to set the initial timing as WT explained. And then a real timing light to set it at max advance once it's up and running.

It would be interesting to know the origination of that engine. A low profile fan shroud like a type-181 Thing, a not familiar engine code number, and evidently factory electronic ignition.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:58 pm

Agreed on changing to points - not an option at this time.

It's a Brazillian bus 1992. The carb on it is Solex (can't remember the model off the top of my head).

I think the plan is to get the engine back in the bus tomorrow, find the proper timing tools (if possible) and see what happens.

The issue here is parts - it's not like Mexico or Brazil. Some Central/South American countries are littered with bugs and buses, but not here in Panama. There simply aren't that many parts and people aren't used to air cooled engines.

Here's the actual bus. The body is in pretty good shape.

Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Guys,

Thanks so much for your input and your support. I don't feel so stranded now I know you are all there helping.

Bit annoying about the gasket sealant advice I received from a local mechanic. Wish I had posted earlier as that would have saved a lot of time. FYI my cylinders were bored 5000km ago, 50% new pistons and new rings., there were no shims as stated.

I am going to seriously look at the points / dissy when I get to Mexico as I am expecting to make use of the (long awaited) availability of parts and do some serious shopping. Thanks for the input Ian

So I am going to set the timing a 28-30° BTDC at 3500+ rpm with the hoses off. as stated by wildthings.

I will give the taillight thing a go too as it seems like just the sort of thing I need to know on the road. Thanks for that tip.

Getting hold of a tach meter might be an issue but I am sure I can work something out.

As with the rebuild just one more rusty threaded bolt to replace (its been the story of about 40% of the bolts, which wouldn't be a problem if there was a hardware store nearby) and have to weld the exhaust back together and hopefully the engine will be back in tomorrow. I have to raise the engine in sand and on a jack with a head about the size of 50c... I have a teenage boy the size of a hobbit helping me though so what could possibly go wrong??!!!