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Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:55 pm

Mic and others who may be interested,
I have been engaged in the restoration of 904-014 off and on since 1977. Steve Heinrichs could post some of it's limited racing history, but early-on it was crashed and my shop was chosen to straighten the bare sheetmetal box frame.

A full-scale blueprint of the plan and elevation views was provided by the Porsche factory and we set about making a special jig to hold and pull/push all the suspension points back into alignment. I will locate and scan a print of that machine and post that as soon as I can.

When that was accomplished, we were engaged to check the frame of a 904 which had burned in a garage fire a few states away. We then decided that a dedicated 356 jig would be beneficial, so we used the factory shop manual's drawings to fabricate the fixtures like used on the Cellette bench as seen in the 356 workshop manual to make the major jig frame/base possible for either/or. I had a new Cellette bench and 911 fixtures, but both the newer bench and the older fixtures were incompatible if I could have found them.

We checked those "home-made" fixtures on the new bench (made to use with the 904s) with a very nice (and totally stripped) 356 C Coupe that had just arrived from Switzerland; no rust and no accident damage other than superficial dents and minor dings.

Thirty five years later those two cars were reunited in my shop yesterday, both owners reintroduced and a lot of stories exchanged about how "life got in the way" of both cars being finished in those intervening years. Both men swear 2013 will be the year to enjoy their "new" Porsches.

I enjoyed making the roll bar shown, as it replaced a simple hoop affixed to the sheetmetal frame by slotted cheesehead machine screws like those that hold the engine tin pieces to each other on any 356 motor. No bracing, etc. The 904 was to be raced again and will definitely will see track time, as it's owner is an instructor at New Jersey Motorsports Park!

It's in now for some replacement fiberglass "adjustments" to allow the original gas tank to fir properly and not hit the front lid, some touch up to paint and frame and other minor "issues" prior to it's rebuilt engine and trans being installed.

Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:14 pm

Bruce, Thanks for taking the time to post. If you can post more with some pics I would love it.

Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:47 am

Interesting story there Bruce. I bet a lot of thought went into the work you describe above. Not so many could work on a 904 with confidence.

Roy

Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:01 am

MMW, thank you!

Roy, thank you, it's an interesting piece of Porsche history, but when working on even the most exotic of cars, we think "it's just another automobile, really."

My background and training was art and my degree is in Industrial Design and that was also my introduction with the 356 while I was in school. The early Porsches got my respect due to the "form and function" to which we were being exposed during our studies and projects as students.

The 904 was an extension of the 356, but fiberglass was being used for the first time...and coincidentally, we were making most of our test design models with fiberglass. We were vacuum-forming clear plastic, so I understood the side windows and headlight covers of the 904. The mid-engine design, the light weight, the aerodynamics all were concurrent with our training...so I wanted a 904, badly. A few were changing hands as just old racecars and I found one in Chicago for $3,500 but could not raise the money fast enough. Speedsters were $500 when I was doing all this, but fetching over a thousand by the time I wanted a 904. That was big money back then for a young man just starting out in real life!

I am hoping that when 904-014 is finally drivable, I will be allowed to drive a 904 for the first time or at least be given a ride.......if I can still fold myself into it by then. The cars stay pretty much the same, but the human body isn't the same with an added almost 50 years and a "few" extra pounds. :cry:

Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:50 am

Great story and pictures Bruce - thanks for the post.
Is that the 904 gas tank in the top photo?

Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:06 am

Yes, gas tanks for a 904 look like this:

The chassis was repaired on this holding fixture. The rusty frame on it's side was from a fire, ID number forgotten, file gone... unfortunately. I can only assume that as values were rocketing up at this time, someone rebuilt it with spares or fiberglass parts made from molds taken from original parts as much of -014 was done.
That 'bench' became a 356 jig soon after, 'proofed' with the red C in my first posting on this thread.
Please note that leaning against the far wall in the lower right picture is a special steel RSK front lid. It was ribbed and sealed, cleverly used as an oil cooler. We had Dave Baker's RSK project car literally "hanging around" (the rafters) back then and Sandy Sadtler's finished 718-022 (?) as a display when folks walked in the shop. I get to say, yes, "those were the days."

Happy Holidays to all, Merry Christmas tomorrow, especially.
Best regards,
Bruce

Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:17 am

Thanks for posting the pics Bruce. Interesting "maintaining the breed" history. As the price of the cars have gone up, so has the steel for those fixtures.

Phil Planck

Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:10 am

Phil,
Lucky our landlord in what was called "the big shop" back then also owned a scrap yard. The steel beams we used were.....free! Think that would happen today?
Now, we chain things together to thwart the dishonest scrappers.

We made all kinds of "stuff" with scrap steel; rotisseries, parts-specific stands to hold 356 pieces in the paint booth, special stands for engines, carts, special tools, etc.
That was where I had the guys working with me that were retirees from 'old school' body shops and area coachbuilding firms. I was early 30's and they were late 60's-early 70's and I doubt any of them saw age 100, sad to say. They passed along their knowledge to me and a few other "young" guys, but that cycle isn't being continued. I find that more sad yet. In life, unlike the 'puter, there is no 'reset' button.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:38 pm

"but that cycle isn't being continued"

Bruce

I think that cycle is alive and well. If you follow the metalmeet forum, they have their "holidays" where the experts bring in equipment, both hand and power and teach the younger ones how it is done. These are very low key, low cost events and are held in various places around the world. Big one is near Chicago every year. On my bucket list.

For those who can afford it, Fay Butler, Wray Shelin, Steve Houge, and others put on workshops. So they are out there, but many are working on bikes and street rods, which is fine.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:27 pm

Phil, thank you for that perspective. Yes, demonstrations by the practicing professionals, (most better than me, for sure), are fulfilling one facet of "old school" metalwork. However, I'll be more clear in what I meant; how many of the hobbyists at seminars and weekend gatherings are going to do any work other than for themselves and how many actual apprenticeships are being offered or taken?
Add to that that "proper" tools and equipment are more money than justifiable for one project...even 5!
What I was referring to in my comment above was that the "old guys" who worked for me were training me, an upside-down apprenticeship, but professional and long-term, nonetheless. How many younger people want metalwork (or even automotive restoration) as a career?
I must admit that there is one college in Kansas offering a degree course in restoration, but like most vo-tech education, we'd need to know the size of the classes and how many are any good and how many of those stick to it after graduation. I'd wager from experience that the percentage of good AND dedicated graduates is low (regardless of what the placement office has to say).
'Bottom line' is exemplified by Curt Strohacker, creator of Eastwood Co. In his early career, he was what's known as a "wagon peddler"...he'd buy up the slow-moving tools and supplies from auto body supply houses and go to shops still using those items, basically "door-to-door" in an old station wagon. He came to my "big shop" where I had 12 guys and 35-40 old Porsches in for work at a time....and for those 'oldtimers' who used his offerings. As time went on, that faded and Eastwood Co. was born.... primarily for the hobbyists. He knew his market was changing and he stayed with it as it morphed from pro to hobbyist and it has paid off for him very well.
In actuality, I should, if I could, see who is on the faculty of that college and assuming they know more than I do, go back for a graduate degree...IF they offer a senior citizen discount! :wink: Want to join me?

The real bottom line in my business is; "you don't train your help, you train your competition."

Merry Happy,

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:39 pm

Understand you Bruce. Fay Butler has 1 apprentice, that is the only one I know of. But Fay teaches the power tool method for faster thoughput. I like, and have the time to use the hand tool method. Actually just made a post today on metalmeet requesting advice on shrinking a portion of the fender section Fay made. I thought there was too much metal to shrink, but so far advice has been to make two long tucks and shrink them down. Now I just have to figure out how to make those long(6") tucks on a crown.

Phil

Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Bruce-
It cuts both ways, when I was doing the magazine in Brooklyn I made a decision to get more serious about 356 work and planned to devote at least one day a week to working free for a local shop or backyard 356'er. I approached 3-4 folks but none could be bothered, so I got with a few Registry brothers who walked me through a few things, but most of what I have learned has been the hard way, with busted knuckles, Pellow manuals, and luckily having a brain around like Big John, he can look at anything mechanical and figure it out. I once bought a Vespa scooter at a yard sale, the guy who sold it to me said, "Sometimes it runs, most times it doesn't."
John and I messed with it for about 5 minutes before he got out an icepick, dug out the tiny piece of keyway (that had been worn smooth by repeated crankings) and said, "Keyway sheared off so the engine wouldn't hold time, but about every 10th crank it was in the right place, so it would start."
I asked, "How do you know how to work on a Vespa?"
His answer was, "What the fuck is a Vespa?"
But like I said, we bumbled through getting Porsches going, now we are pretty good, but without much hands on help, the Registry was a great resource for answering questions, but the busted knuckles were all ours.

Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:04 am

This thread I really like reading. Its so true, the skill in metalwork needs to be passed on. By metalwork I mean bodywork, welding, fabrication, leading etc, Even in machine tool shops how things have changed since the 50's. When I started a 5 year apprenticeship in the late 50's as a press toolmaker I had to use all the machine tools lathes, milling machines, surface and cylindrical grinders, shapers, jig borers , etc etc as well as drawing office and fitting shops.

When I came up to retirement, I was selling CNC machine tools and spent a lot of time visiting many different factories. Not only was the number of apprentices so much lower also the method of training them was so different. They never really had the chance to start in a basic way on manual machines but they were often in at the deep end very quickly on multi axis CNC machines because so much of their upbringing at college was computer orientated. They were often very clever, but if I asked one to go on a lathe and put a thread into an internal bore on a manual machine they could not even attempt it. Program a robot auto load from pallet to work station and then complete the automatic production of tooling was no problem but.......

I have been following a thread on www.porsche356abcgt.com for some time. Justin Rio bas documented many many pages on his restoration of a $75- 356A Carrera bought by his father in the 80's from a scrap yard. This has also been on the Registry. But if you look on Justins forum under Restoration projects you will find the link and it many pages and hundreds of photos of each problem and the way he solved it.

I have fabricated, welded and leaded my car but boy have I learnt some tricks from Justins thread. More info than any book I have read. He has managed to pass on to me so much in a very clear way I actually want to go back to mine and improve it in many ways. The problem is I realise I don't need another 5 years work at my age............but the interest you see is still there!

Thats my Christmas dasy sermon over with :lol:

Roy

Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:33 pm

Fascinating series of posts Bruce. Thank you. All I can say is....keep em coming. I never get tired tired of seeing creative work on interesting projects, and especially 904s. I wish I had wandered into your shop as a young man. Perhaps I would have wound up with a different career.

I like Roy's comments on modern machinists and education processes too. I observe the same in my line of work. Many kids coming out of school now with a high level of specific technical skills (always involving computers and technology). They can do the job they are trained for quite well. But present them with something they have not been trained for, and they just stand there with a dumb blank stare. The ability to apply reason and solve problems seems absent.

I'm amazed at how quick these guys can find information. They use computers and the internet, where we would pick up a book and start reading. But what I have noticed about this is that they quickly find the precise piece of information they are looking for, and learn nothing else in the process. I'll pose the argument that it is the old-fashoned way of learning, stumbling along through various texts and reports, encountering all sorts of seemingly unrelated things, that nurtures the intellectual depth needed to be creative problem solvers.

Oh, and....Merry Christmas
DG

Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:09 am

dg58innm wrote: The ability to apply reason and solve problems seems absent..............
Oh, and....Merry Christmas
DG
Wow, this is the crux of the restoration business "problem" of finding good help! The nail has been hit squarely on the head! "Common sense" is THE #1 ingredient that's usually lacking in even the most well-intentioned participant. It surpasses even technical skill and is right up there with Joel's sign-off- "When in doubt.......think about it."
I have always said that I'll never know everything, but I always try to figure things out and if that doesn't work, I'll look it up or know someone to call.
And belatedly, Merry Christmas!

-Bruce

Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:14 am

Unfortunately this is a problem that spans more than just the restoration business :-( Teach at a university for any length of time, and you'll notice it immediately. People (administrators, parents and kids, alike) think education is "about" learning skills, when more importantly it's about learning how to learn, how to research, how to think on your feet and use your creative/critical abilities, combined with skills, to solve problems. Of course, with the current mania to measure everything via testing, these less tangible components of learning are the first to be dismissed :-( Increasingly, people are being trained to be button pushers, not thinkers.

Great photos! That's a wild looking chassis.

Yes, MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:13 pm

Bruce,

Don't be forlorn. There is a subculture phenomenon that has been brewing for some time now: ... Makers.
Organized things like this are not my bag, but I appreciate their sentiments.
I can say that many here, myself included, have been somewhat members of this "movement" for our whole lives, just isolated. Didn't know it nor have a name for it.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mak...4169,d.eWU

http://makerfaire.com/be-a-maker.html

Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:38 am

Actually, I AM relieved. Thank you. That info gets plugged into the "learning something new every day" record.
Actually, reading the links I was reminded of the "shops" in art school, primarily dedicated to Industrial Design. We'd pull "all-nighters" to get a project done, basically locked in the facility...but we'd open a window and climb down to the street to get more beer.....some security, huh? I'd go to the print shop and make race posters after processing film in the photo labs and on weekends I'd pay friends with beer to help mask and paint a Speedster I bought for $500 to "flip" for $650 and cover another month of school........"Makers" is only a great new name, but not a new concept. :idea:

Thank you again for that awakening posting!

Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:34 pm

Few of our species are true 'creators', that is the person with the 'big idea', that is eventually made real by the folks who complete the arduous process of bringing that idea to fruition by 'thinking about it' and visualizing the needs to make the idea, reality.
So called 'job creators' are for the most part, those who then capitalize on the work of the person with the big idea and the problem solvers that follow it up. They are just a piece of the equation, as their suppliers, employees, clients and other peripheral participants, are as necessary to their success as any other part of the equation, including themselves.
As we become more and more automated, driven by robotics, virtual thinking and problem solving, and are less and less a part of the process, we become more and more irrelevant to the process. How all that plays out will depend on the extent to which the technologies take control of the process, reducing or eliminating the 'human' factor, and what happens to our species as we continue to increase our population and the demand on the finite resources available to us.
Those of our species who value the simplicity and practicality of the technologies that are readily available to, and controllable by the average human may well be the future should the human population collapse as a result of too few resources. Population dynamics 1-A.... :wink: Owning an old Porsche helps, but knowing how it works and being able to maintain it, is much more relevant and rewarding.
Dang nice work Bruce. Bet you had to 'think about it' before proceeding. At least 75 % of any project is always preparation and setup. :wink:
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OUR PORSCHE FRIENDS (and everyone else)

Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:14 pm

356JAEGER wrote: Few of our species are true 'creators', that is the person with the 'big idea', that is eventually made real by the folks who complete the arduous process of bringing that idea to fruition by 'thinking about it' and visualizing the needs to make the idea, reality.
So called 'job creators' are for the most part, those who then capitalize on the work of the person with the big idea and the problem solvers that follow it up.
In art school, ironically named PCA, Philadelphia College of Art, our I.D. class had a Mattel sponsored "competition," juried and graded, for creative toys. We all had to sign waivers. Guess where this is going.......yep, I designed what was eventually released as the "Sit-n-Spin." I designed it as a sit-n-spin-n-rock, but their lawyers likely didn't like the fact that little fingers could get pinched, so the rocking part was eliminated, the actual design thus altered so they could sell it and I could get.... out of school......to fix old Porsches.