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Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:57 pm

Hi all.

Getting no love on the EV yahoo group so.....

A very long term thought should I ever switch to an EVC, but will a Jetta/Golf 2.0 bolt up to the EV 5 spd. bell housing and sit at the correct angle?

My guess is "yes" but wiser minds will know.

Though the gearing etc. is different, the Vanagon and EV weights aren't vastly different so I figured that in terms of power reduction, an ABA or AEG into a 5 spd. EVC might be feasible. Ultimately it seems a 1.8T would be a great engine to install.

Neil.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:11 pm

having made a EV 2.5l adapter into a vanagon and owning a few I4 vanagon swaps. my best guess is no, but anything is possible with time, money and determination.
people do put 1.8Ts into the 5cyl Audi sedans, stating enough holes match, but I just don't get the feel of it holding all the parts up together..

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:33 pm

Thanks Dan.

Ya my internal visualization is likely backwards. Figured that since the bolt pattern of the 5 and 4 cly. VW gas inline engines need to be adapted to the Vanagon transmission, the 4 cyl. would bolt up to the EV manual tranny.

Edit: Sorry. I think I misunderstood.

So since some swap the 1.8T into an Audi, the 2.0 NA I4 studs and bolts would line up to the EV 5 spd clutch housing? If so....

I anticipated that there would be changes required to the engine mounts. And of course this wouldn't be a simple swap given the electronics involved. But. My guess is that the various wire lengths of the Mk3 harness would be suitable to the EV body.

Neil.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:49 pm

Vanagon Nut wrote: Hi all.

Getting no love on the EV yahoo group so.....

A very long term thought should I ever switch to an EVC, but will a Jetta/Golf 2.0 bolt up to the EV 5 spd. bell housing and sit at the correct angle?

My guess is "yes" but wiser minds will know.

Though the gearing etc. is different, the Vanagon and EV weights aren't vastly different so I figured that in terms of power reduction, an ABA or AEG into a 5 spd. EVC might be feasible. Ultimately it seems a 1.8T would be a great engine to install.

Neil.

Hi Neil,

It's possible to put a 2.0 inline 4 VW/Audi engine in a Eurovan. VW actually sold them that way in europe. The base petrol engine for the T4 was a 2.0 84 hp (VW always re-tuned Transporter engines for less hp, but more torque) inline 4. The 5 cylinder 2.5 with 110hp was the upgrade engine and the only one that we got.

The manual transmission in the Eurovan is a derivative of the 02A unit used in the Corrado and Passat of the same era. It had a special bellhousing fitted to it for the 5 cylinder block. To mount an inline 4 to a Eurovan transmission you would need to source a 4 cylinder bellhousing. You would also need the unique engine mount brackets for the 4 cylinder block and also the special oil pan.

It could definitely be done, but the basic Eurovan is actually at least 300 lbs heavier than a Vanagon. An extended wheelbase Eurovan camper is probably heavier by an even larger margin. I would think that's a little much weight for a 115 hp/121 torque gas 2.0 engine. A 1.8T would be a better match to a T4, but I think I would be tempted to go TDI.

Fun the think about. The Eurovan is actually a really good vehicle. It just doesn't get much by VW bus enthusiasts.

David

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:15 pm

D Clymer wrote: Vanagon Nut wrote:

.... will a Jetta/Golf 2.0 bolt up to the EV 5 spd. bell housing and sit at the correct angle?

Though the gearing etc. is different, the Vanagon and EV weights aren't vastly different

Hi Neil,

It's possible to put a 2.0 inline 4 VW/Audi engine in a Eurovan. VW actually sold them that way in europe.

The manual transmission in the Eurovan is a derivative of the 02A unit used in the Corrado and Passat of the same era. It had a special bellhousing fitted to it for the 5 cylinder block. To mount an inline 4 to a Eurovan transmission you would need to source a 4 cylinder bellhousing. You would also need the unique engine mount brackets for the 4 cylinder block and also the special oil pan.

It could definitely be done, but the basic Eurovan is actually at least 300 lbs heavier than a Vanagon. An extended wheelbase Eurovan camper is probably heavier by an even larger margin. I would think that's a little much weight for a 115 hp/121 torque gas 2.0 engine. A 1.8T would be a better match to a T4, but I think I would be tempted to go TDI.

Much thanks David. I had read that some EV's c/w a 4 cly but wasn't obviously clear on some details. And ya. The weight figure I saw may have been based solely upon the base model (shorter) EV.

Ok. I now see a TDI swap here:

(FF to :55 for the good stuff)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KCYtEDt61U

and some images here including a note about the AHU mounted to the 02B:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=267136&page=3

Seems Greaseworks *was* doing these but not now:

http://www.greaseworks.org/index.php?module=Content&func=view&pid=19

Neil.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:30 pm

Good info in your links, Neil. I just scanned through the TDI Club one and saw that I was wrong about the bellhousing on the 02B. Apparently it has holes for both the 4 and 5 cylinder engines. So that means you could use a 93-95 Eurovan 5 speed van as a basis, use the tranny as is, and make custom mounts brackets to mate the 4 cylinder block to the subframe. You could always source the oem ones from Germany, but if you are doing something non-standard like a 1.8T or a 4 cylinder TDI, the factory brackets might have clearance issues. Either way, it would be pretty simple to physically mount the engine.

In Canada during the first few years, you had the Eurovan CV. It was a real Westfalia camper with a full Westfalia interior. I've always liked this model, partly because it was the last true Westfalia camper we got in North America, and partly because I like the looks of the standard length van more than the long one.

David

Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:45 pm

Cool.

Seems the TDI swap info is very relevant. Thanks for that clue. Certainly opens up some search results.

Though somewhat OT, here's a page showing how one EV owner swapped his taller Golf 5th gear into the EV transmission:

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=22159

Putting in a 2.0 might be an illogical step backwards for the EVC but maybe "ok" for an EV.

And for sure; I'd prefer a Westy interior quality.

Neil.

Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:42 pm

A Eurovan Westy weighs in at 5,250 lbs, a good 1000 lbs more than a 1991 Vanagon Westy - I can't see a 2 litre inline four being a good fit!

Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:51 am

I'm not 100% sure if the FWD Eurovan bellhousing is the same as the Audi Quattro 5 cylinder bellhousing but 034 Motorsports makes an adaptor to mate the VR6 to a 5 cylinder Audi transmission. This would be a nice set up in a Eurovan.
Not what the OP asked but information nonetheless.

Thu May 21, 2015 5:03 pm

A friend has a '93 5-speed eurovan transmission at his shop. It has the bolt holes for mounting EITHER the 4-cyl or the 5-cyl. I do not believe that the mounting angle is the same as when it a jetta/golf. I would not bother to install an ABA. I would do an ALH. If I had to choose a gas engine I'd go with a 1.8t.

Fri May 22, 2015 2:14 am

a guy i know is doing something similar and the dipstick hole in the block is in a completely different place.

he ended up using the original eurovan block and all the newer internals from a golf diesel. :lol:

Fri May 22, 2015 9:27 am

the european and canadian market 1992 EVs came with a 2.0L 4cyl engine.
the bolt pattern may be a relic of that initial offering in the transmission casting.
anyone know if you can put a 4cyl upto a EV automatic transmission?

Fri May 22, 2015 9:48 am

[quote="danfromsyr"]the european and canadian market 1992 EVs came with a 2.0L 4cyl engine. [quote/]

We actually only had five engines offered here in Canada. AAF and ACU 5 cylinder gas, AAB 5 cylinder NA diesel and both VR6s.
You'd have to source the 4 cylinder mounts either south of your border or in Europe.

I agree with the others who've stated their reservations about using an ABA. Good engine but not really suitable for a heavy T4, maybe if it was boosted via a SC or Turbo.

The early TDIs 1Z/AHU have the same block design therefore the 4 cylinder Euro mounts are nearly bolt on. There is a couple holes to drill and tap for the right mount and the oil dipstick tube must be drilled out as well. With the right components it's a fairly straight forward swap.

Fri May 22, 2015 10:37 am

Yup.

Andrew A. Libby wrote: .... If I had to choose a gas engine I'd go with a 1.8t.

Thu May 28, 2015 9:04 pm

I think the 1.8t swap is pretty viable if you've got the skills and/or time.

Check out the Uk T4 forum -- there's a DIY on it. :D

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=408537

Thu May 28, 2015 9:37 pm

Very cool

Fri May 29, 2015 10:30 am

Mmmmmm.....orange :P

Fri May 29, 2015 10:47 am

Nice write up.
From that:

"here is also an opinion that 1.8T engines require stronger con-rods when fitted to a T4 (in a golf they are generally regarded as necessary for 350bhp+) due to the increased load/revs/drag of the heavier and less aerodynamic van with a shorter gearbox – two of the first 1.8T T4s threw rods, although there may be other factors that caused or contributed. Conversely, there are currently 4 or 5 1.8T T4s that are running standard rods with no ill effects to date."

I'm not that familiar with engine management tuning but could con rod failure in that application be due an OEM tune being mismatched to the gears and vehicle weight? i.e. tune the management vs con rod R&R ?

Neil.

Itsamoto wrote:

http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=408537

Fri May 29, 2015 12:25 pm

My money would be on "...there may be other factors that caused or contributed"

Fri May 29, 2015 1:28 pm

ha. Indeed. Can't imagine the temptation of more power.
I guess a specific tune can't overcome vehicle weight, limitations of materials and a heavy foot.

Neil.

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: My money would be on "...there may be other factors that caused or contributed"