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Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:56 pm

Hey guys I've been thinking more and more about an engine swap while I'm building my Baja and from the searches I've done I haven't found a thread dedicated to Ecotec swaps or other engines for that matter.. I currently have a 1915 single carb and I like it... but I'd like more horsepower with less serious engine build. I'm a huge fan of Aircooled VW engines, they're amazing, simple and easy to work on in the field when something does go wrong, but modern engines do make some great HP right off the bat.

Anyway I'd like to start a thread all about the Ecotec, where to get the parts needed for a swap, where to find the best deals, and what all is needed... somewhere a newb like myself can go for reference.

I know car-part.com is a great site for picking up engines, I know turnkey motorsports offers drop in kits (that seem way to pricey for me), and I know there are guys on here who have managed to piece really nice setups together themselves...

thanks for the help,
Matt

Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:29 am

CBM Motorsports also makes part for ecotec swaps. They have some nice fittings for hooking up your fuel system and rad. Also has adapters kits.
They have alot of stuff on e-bay.
http://cbfunforyou.com/index-2d.html

Kennedy Engineered makes adapters for about anything to a VW trans.
http://www.kennedyeng.com/index.htm

I got my wiring harness and ecu reworked at http://enginewiring.com

There are as many ways to do a ecotec swap as there are buggies that have done an ecotec swap. :lol: You can buy an adapter and strip a junk car and do it your self of get a turnkey setup or anywhere in-between.

Here's a link that has a lot of info. http://www.woodsbuggy.com/index.php?option=com_jfu...mp;t=10787

Norm

Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:02 am

I've done 2 ecotec swaps and will be finishing a third within the next 2 weeks. All of the one's I've done, I've stripped a stock harness myself, and flashed the ECM with HP Tuners to remove the PATS feature. To program an ECM in HPT is $100 (HPT looks at the VIN in the ECM, and charges credits to tune each VIN), so finding a shop that can do it for $200 shouldn't be too hard, it will only take them a minute to turn PATS off and flash the tune. Once you pay HPTuners for your VIN, you can tune it whenever you want, so going back to the shop to change fan temps and such really shouldn't be too expensive.

Cutting the harness up really isn't a big deal. You basically cut the big plug off where the engine harness goes through the firewall. The funny thing is the harness gets power for the ECM, injectors, ignition, etc from the under DASH fuse block, so you find those wires where you just cut the harness (should be pink) and tie them to a switched power source. Cutting the extra plugs out of the harness (for AC, emissions, etc) cleans up the harness, but isn't necessary.

Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:27 am

Thanks for keeping the post alive guys...

I can't believe I forgot about Kennedy lol, I've know about them forever!

Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:27 am

I'm curious to know if there's a free tune floating around that people can just flash and.load using hptuners and load the new one up. My buddy has hpt but he's still getting the hang of things using it, point being he's not a tuner and would prefer I just load up my stock tune and send it out to someone have them make changes and send back so we can just load it onto the modules. Everyone says its not very difficult but I haven't come across a full list of what needs to be removed and changed.

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:56 am

Here's another worth while thread about adding VSS to ecotec

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=527426&highlight=ecotec

Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:14 pm

Blackoutt wrote: I'm curious to know if there's a free tune floating around that people can just flash and.load using hptuners and load the new one up. My buddy has hpt but he's still getting the hang of things using it, point being he's not a tuner and would prefer I just load up my stock tune and send it out to someone have them make changes and send back so we can just load it onto the modules. Everyone says its not very difficult but I haven't come across a full list of what needs to be removed and changed.

I can send you our file. You can also download the file from HPTuners web site (if you are registered with them as an owner of their product).

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:27 pm

Well I have 2 questions lol, would it be easier if I have my buddy load up my stock file and email it to you and just have you load yours over mine then send back and just load it up on mine? And I've heard the discussion and issues with vss but you can just tune it out correct?

I was planning on going with a gps speedo as its a lesser pain in the ass than making brackets and running stuff to put in a vss.

Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:59 pm

The easiest is for me to email you my file and have him save that file to your ecm.

Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:03 am

Quote: Hey guys I've been thinking more and more about an engine swap while I'm building my Baja and from the searches I've done I haven't found a thread dedicated to Ecotec swaps or other engines for that matter..

Just wondering and not trying to dig, I was just wondering if you checked in the performance engines/transmissions forum?

Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:06 am

Blackoutt wrote: And I've heard the discussion and issues with vss but you can just tune it out correct?

I was planning on going with a gps speedo as its a lesser pain in the ass than making brackets and running stuff to put in a vss.

The main benefit to adding the VSS has little to do with a speedo. The PCM changes idle speed depending on if the vehicle is moving or not. Seems insignificant until you drive one without a vss and then with a vss. Makes a big difference in driveablity and what the RPM's do between shifting gears. Some have also had stalling problems when pushing the clutch in coming to a stop. Adding a vss resolves these problems.

Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:34 am

I'm just curious how much it costs and how much of a pain in the ass it is to run a vss, I saw the one thread where someone built the bracket and everything and it just looked like a long process. And it seemed that not everyone was having the rpm issue or at least not saying they have problems.

Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:02 am

Blackoutt wrote: I'm just curious how much it costs and how much of a pain in the ass it is to run a vss, I saw the one thread where someone built the bracket and everything and it just looked like a long process. And it seemed that not everyone was having the rpm issue or at least not saying they have problems.

Stingray250 made an awesome setup on his using an actual GM 30 tooth reluctor and a professional looking bracket. I cobbled together a bracket with scrap metal I had and bought a 16 tooth reluctor from Pacific Customs.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because this is not tested by me. But the GM factory ecotec VSS is just a two wire sensor that outputs a sine wave. So it's basically just a magnet and a coil of wires inside. The pulse generator on Pacific Customs should work the same way. Meaning everything you need to add a vss is on this page. Including the bracket and sensor.

http://www.pacificcustoms.com/pulse-generators-for-speedometers.html

Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:18 pm

I recently did the Ecotec Swap on my rail, here is the link to my build, the Ecotec Swap starts on page 3:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=409356&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:12 pm

You don't need to do the remote oil filter or oil cooler, but CBM has the best deal if you choose to.

Steve Humphrey has better programming and harness no need for VSS and no idle issue. "(909) 910-3867" Steve Humphrey

Power steering bracket from CBM and TurnKey is junk, TrailGear, http://www.trail-gear.com/tech/pump-kit/mounts-500.jpg and drill some holes or use stock

use stock alternator

Jerry Jardine makes the best header http://jardinesheaderpalace.com/files/2012/05/myphoto61.jpg

Jakes fabworks for throttle linkage http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php/81854-Eco-Tec-Throttle-cable-bracket

Kennedy for adapter

Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:01 pm

No need for VSS??? If you say so... lemme know how that works out for ya.

As far as CBM... I almost got snookered on a set of forged JE pistons they were selling on ebay... I called em because they didn't list a compression ratio in the add... They told me they would be fine and somewhere "around" 9.8:1 with a stock L61 53cc head and 0.40 cometic head gasket... not so true.

After talkin with Henry over at JE Pistons, and doin some math of my own... come to find out they are actually more like 8.6:1... BIG difference... I'd have to boost my Eco with 22psi! I ended up goin with Wiseco 10:1... and Eagle "H" beams... golden. Should be back online, boosted and bullet proof by end of April.

Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:08 pm

Stingray250 wrote: No need for VSS??? If you say so... lemme know how that works out for ya.

Over a year on my bus, and 3 years on my friends rail with no issues. Thanks for asking.

I KEEP SAYING! But nobody listens to me, all of you that are having problems, all have the same tune from the same source. I just don't think it's a coincidence.

Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:52 pm

Albeit I will admit... you CAN delete the VSS in the tune program, but any tuner worth his salt will tell you, the more sensors you can grab a signal from in relation to fuel/ign... the better chance you have of fine tuning your application... I guess it's kinda like spam is to steak... both edible... but one sure tastes better than the other...

Anyway in addition... the speed sensor IS used in conjunction with other sensors in calculating pulsewidth/air fuel delivery at idle... how else would the PCM know whether or not the car was in motion other than maybe the TPS signal?

I guess if a tuner wanted to, he could just bump the idle to 850+ rpm's and be done with it... my tuner offered the same thing... that or a VSS! I doubt yer base idle is a stock 650 rpm's like mine... My "coasting" rpm's are between 850 and 1000 rpm's... between shifts there's no lean condition or harsh rpm drop... at a complete stop they come down to 650 instantaneously... really nice to drive with a stage 2 clutch, coming off a light.

To each his own!!! :lol:

Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:28 am

Hi guys,
My ecotec is stalling when I slow to a stop.
Tom @ enginewiring do my harness/ecu.
I'm not sure if I have the wires for the VSS sensor anymore. What color wire or pin number should I look for if I wanted to hook up a VSS sensor?
Its a 2003 or 04 Pontiac Sunbird harness/ecu.
I may not have the wires anymore and may have to go with "Mr Unpopular" style tune.
Thanks, Norm

Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:00 am

haha don't make it sound like such a bad thing Norm. No stalling issues and no VSS sensor to get caught up in the woods.

Do you have HPTuners? If so, I can probably have my buddy send you the file. Or he can flash it, but it would cost $100 for the credits to tune your ECM (lifetime fee).