TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Hey gang,

So my 69 FI Automatic Square has given me it's first engine trouble. I am totally new to mechanical culture, so I figure I'd ask here first. It's my daily driver so I definitely need to figure out a plan quick.

Basically, the symptoms now are as follows: The car starts with a pretty low, unsustainable idle and I definitely have to slightly pump the gas to get it to turn over. The accelerator pedal makes the car go almost slower before picking up speed, for a good couple seconds, sometimes longer. There aren't any noises or rattles, the engine sounds fine when it gets up to speed, but if I slow down or hit a stop light I pretty much have to throw it into neutral or the car dies. I also got a really brief green light flicker getting the car home yesterday, but never came back after I pulled over and gave the car a little rest while I inspected an obvious issues.

This happened "all of a sudden"

But, what makes me think that this is a sort of unveiling of an existing problem versus a traumatic happening was that the idle was gradually getting lower over the last few months. I was actually going to tune the car up this weekend to address that, but right now the car isn't really driveable.

My first hunch after some research is that the heat risers are plugged, and that's why the gradual increase and climax of the problem.

But hey, I'm new here. What do you think I should do? Is the problem to big to consider for my own work? It seems like no matter what possibility I uncover, the resolution involves pulling the engine out. Any recommendations for South Bay Los Angeles mechanics? Any locals down to take a look for some cash?

Hey guys, thanks for your help in advance.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:30 pm

Brien(Itawayoflife here) in Buena Park will fix it in your driveway!

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:50 pm

What distributor and fuel system?

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say your ignition points rider is wearing and your gap is off now.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:03 pm

Points closing up?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:30 pm

check the dwell and timing

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:30 pm

Points, or the distributor clamp thru bolt was loose, and it allowed the distributor to retard it's timing.
Check the point gap first, and IF it's still good (.016"), then put a timing light on it, and see where it's at. Also, check to see IF you can twist the distributor slightly, as if you can, then the timing has moved.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:44 pm

Mike Fisher wrote: Brien(Itawayoflife here) in Buena Park will fix it in your driveway!

Have you met Mike?

He's our director of volunteers.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:19 pm

Heat risers? On an EFI car? :-k

Check the general tune-up items (valves, ignition), and then go looking for vacuum leaks. FI automatics run crappy with vacuum leaks, much more so than carb or stick models do.

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:31 pm

KTPhil wrote: Heat risers? On an EFI car? :-k

Dude. :roll:

All heat rises...

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:06 pm

Hey thanks for the insight guys!

And to the guff dishers, hey, one must take their licks to earn their stripes, so all shit giving is welcome in the house of noob.

I'll give it a go this weekend...

Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:08 am

Tram wrote: Mike Fisher wrote: Brien(Itawayoflife here) in Buena Park will fix it in your driveway!

Have you met Mike?

He's our director of volunteers.

As long as it's Other People's money. :wink:

Tue May 07, 2013 12:41 pm

Hey guys,

First and foremost, thanks for all your help.

I adjusted the points, valves, idle and timing and the car absolutely booked it Rainbow Road style. Fires up in an instant, it's awesome. Checked it out for obvious vacuum leaks and nothing presented itself, but I suppose I could look harder. Drove the best of all time on the way to work.

The drive home from work was a different story. Which is blowing my mind.

The car has basically no power, and is really difficult to get up over 30mph. Super slow acceleration. The problem got worse as I drove it, for two days out of necessity to get to work. So I parked the car for a weekend out of town and it sat for three days. I fired it up this morning to start addressing the issue, and would you believe it, the car drove like a dream. Rallied hard like a beautiful badass. Parked the car at work, just ripped it to lunch, same damn problem. No power. Under 30mph. Super shitty.

Any ideas as to why the problem wouldn't be consistent? Why a cold engine would rock and a warm engine would flip me a spiritual bird?

Thanks again for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Tue May 07, 2013 12:44 pm

Forgot to mention one minor symptom that may help any assessment. When idling it sort of subtly pulsates, by my count, at the pace of a nice waltz.

one-two-three 1-2-3! one two three 1-2-3!

Tue May 07, 2013 12:45 pm

StinkBug68 wrote: Hey guys,

First and foremost, thanks for all your help.

I adjusted the points, valves, idle and timing and the car absolutely booked it Rainbow Road style. Fires up in an instant, it's awesome. Checked it out for obvious vacuum leaks and nothing presented itself, but I suppose I could look harder. Drove the best of all time on the way to work.

The drive home from work was a different story. Which is blowing my mind.

The car has basically no power, and is really difficult to get up over 30mph. Super slow acceleration. The problem got worse as I drove it, for two days out of necessity to get to work. So I parked the car for a weekend out of town and it sat for three days. I fired it up this morning to start addressing the issue, and would you believe it, the car drove like a dream. Rallied hard like a beautiful badass. Parked the car at work, just ripped it to lunch, same damn problem. No power. Under 30mph. Super shitty.

Any ideas as to why the problem wouldn't be consistent? Why a cold engine would rock and a warm engine would flip me a spiritual bird?

Thanks again for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

In this order:

Recheck points
Check charging system output
Check fuel pressure when you're having the issue

Report back.

Tue May 07, 2013 3:46 pm

StinkBug68 wrote: Forgot to mention one minor symptom that may help any assessment. When idling it sort of subtly pulsates, by my count, at the pace of a nice waltz.

one-two-three 1-2-3! one two three 1-2-3!

It's a 4 cylinder engine.
It should be one-two-three-four!

Check spark plug and injector wires. Maybe you are runing on three, which will make it very low on power.

Mon May 27, 2013 12:45 pm

Hey guys, though I'd follow up here and thank you again for your insight.

After replacing the condenser, one of the fuel injectors and readjusting the points and valves, the car runs fantastic. There was also a shorted wire in the FI line.

So I have one last question regarding this issue before I move on to some of the more fun cosmetic stuff. I was ripping the car around the other day and the wiring harness for the the pressure gauge popped off, causing the car to die.

I popped the harness back on and the square fired right back up, however, I went through and checked all the similar harness connections for the FI system and noticed they are all a little loose. I'm talking about the large plastic connectors, not the connectors you can just tighten down with pliers.

Any tips on solidifying these harness connections? I wrapped a little electric tape around the problem child, but that is just temporary.

Thanks again for your help, you guys.

Mon May 27, 2013 12:54 pm

Sometimes you can get a zip tie round the connectors --thru the incoming wires and around the plug in such a manner as to hold them together. Injector connectors had a spring lock round them which often got thrown across the shop and out the door and stepped on repeatedly.

Also watch for "pushed pins" where the connector dislodges one or more of the pins and pushes it out of the connector and they are very hard to spot, but look into the business end of each plug and make sure the connectors are all visible at the same depth.

Tue May 28, 2013 10:55 am

StinkBug68 wrote: Hey guys, though I'd follow up here and thank you again for your insight.

After replacing the condenser, one of the fuel injectors and readjusting the points and valves, the car runs fantastic. There was also a shorted wire in the FI line.

So I have one last question regarding this issue before I move on to some of the more fun cosmetic stuff. I was ripping the car around the other day and the wiring harness for the the pressure gauge popped off, causing the car to die.

I popped the harness back on and the square fired right back up, however, I went through and checked all the similar harness connections for the FI system and noticed they are all a little loose. I'm talking about the large plastic connectors, not the connectors you can just tighten down with pliers.

Any tips on solidifying these harness connections? I wrapped a little electric tape around the problem child, but that is just temporary.

Thanks again for your help, you guys.

alternatively, I make new harnesses, should your old one prove to be too unreliable. see the link in my sigline

Wed May 29, 2013 4:12 pm

And the adventure continues. After ripping around for a few days without any problems at all, the power monster has again attacked.

Same problem, slightly different symptoms. No power, super super sluggish. Barely gets over 30. Everyone driving behind me is drinking Haterade. Here's the stickler this time though. Once in 20 stoplights, the thing rips regularly like it's supposed to. The problem is very intermittent. After fixing everything with the typical engine issues, points, condenser, valves, timing, idle, I'm starting to think this is an issue with fuel delivery, or the accelerator not actually delivering the fuel it should.

Any thoughts? I've followed all your advice and so far it has been good. I seriously just don't get how I could go through one procedure, it appears to be fixed for a few days, and then it feels busted again all the while the issue I fixed is still maintaining the integrity of the repair. I don't understand what conditions are changing to manifest the problem.

Wed May 29, 2013 6:55 pm

Little more info for you guys.

After another drive home from work the problem cycle is becoming more predictable. I go through the various standard procedures that i've mentioned, the car works great for one day. The second day, the problem pokes its head out just a little bit. Day three the problem is fully active. Day four the car is barely moving, crawling in fact.

I just went through and checked the points and the valves, and those appear fine. Today the green light flickered a little bit for the first time in 6 weeks and it started to die at stop lights. I cleaned all the electrical contacts in the whole fuel sustem and that didn't help either.

Thanks again for your help, I am totally stumped.