TheSamba.com :: View topic - What will it take to get into the very low 13s

Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:31 am

Low 13s are my goal. I want to do this for pretty cheap but still have it reliable. All motor would be prefered. The car is a 1969 (Changed to Carbs) Fastback. What should be done and how much will it cost?

Free flowing exhaust
Better Intake Manifolds
Maybe bigger carbs
Possibly get it bored to a 17xx?
Remote oil cooler
Cam

How much would it cost for each of those. I was looking on cbperformance and some exhausts are like $75-100, cams are like 100, right? How much would all the rest cost and do you think I could get into the low 13s? How much hp does a type 3 need to get into the low 13s/high 12s?!

Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:08 am

new pistons$150.00 & up
new c/w crank $100 to whatever you can afford
new carbs 350.00 & up
manifolds usually come with carbs but not in a type three. do some searching ISP west and Bill and Steves are good sources
oil coolers run from pretty cheap to expensive same with exhausts and again you have space restrictions on a type 3
cams are about 100

Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:34 am

Low 13's for a T3... with the extra weight, i'd think you need atleast 180hp if not nore.

Cheap and reliable... that's an oxymoron.

Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:00 am

that is going to be tough. i have a friend with a new gti turbo that runs that. granted it is a heavier car. my car runs in the 13's but its in the 1/8th mile. you dont need speed when you got style. Good luck.

Tue Nov 18, 2003 6:01 am

sorry i meant tough to do it for cheap.

Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:17 pm

hmmm... 84x94 with f series cam, 1.4 ratio rockers, big carbs, closeratio gears and a good suspension set up. that should be a low 13 or high 12 in a full weight type 3

Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:36 pm

:D Great responses thanks guys keep 'em coming.

One quick question for vwfye:

Isn't an 84x94 a 2332? I thought I remembered reading that 92 is the biggest bore you should use for cooling reasons in a T3. Is this going to be virtually impossible to do with a 1775 or so? What is an F Series cam? Do they make close-ratio gear kits? How much? With a good cam and rocker arm setup as well as intake manifolds and carbs plus exhaust with a stock-ratio trans what do you think a would run, what hp would that be worth? About. Is 140-150hp too much to ask of a 1775 with cams, exhaust, etc? Where would say 150hp put me? Sorry, I'm a noob from the watercooled side of things. I guess here's a question: what would be your ideal (reasonable) setup to get a T3 into the low 13s and what do you think it would cost. :shock:

Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:00 am

wow, what a quick question!!!

yes the 84x94 is a 2332cc. no, 92s aren't the biggest a type 3 can handle... you can cool any engine properly if the set up is correct. the "f" series cams are the Engle fk-8, fk-87, fk-89 and so forth.
without closeratio gearing, with the type 3 weight it would be very tough to get a low 13 even with a 2332.
a 1775cc will be fun to drive, have some pop and will cruise great, but it will not get you into the 13s and still be driven around town. it would have to have radical CR and be revved to the moon to get close or a very healthy dose of NOS or a turbo...
however, a mild 2332cc with mild CR and fairly mild rpm limit can get you a low 13 or a high 12 with a close ratio tranny... even in a 2000lb car!

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:14 am

Sorry, I just kept thinking of new questions! Anyway, thanks for the help. What kind of cooling would we be talking about? Remote filter and cooler and what else? I guess this isn't going to be as cheap as I originally hoped but hopefully I can prove to myself and a friend of mine that it could be done for less than what it would lost to get my GTI VR6 in the low 13s. By the way, what would a mild 1775 run?

Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:17 am

Chronogoof89 wrote: hopefully I can prove to myself and a friend of mine that it could be done for less than what it would cost to get my GTI VR6 in the low 13s.

Does the cost include the value of the car? If not getting a VR6 into the 13's is not hard.

Chronogoof89 wrote: By the way, what would a mild 1775 run?

Maybe 16's. Remember a Type 3 is not as light as a Type 1. And a mild 1776 is 80-100hp.

Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:54 am

Low 13s in a full weight mkIV VR6 is not exactly easy. It would take at least a stage 3 blower, and a cam. Even not including the cost of the car, just the cost of the mods.

Put 3000 into an aircooled car and you are going to see much better performance increases out of it than you would with a VR, at least from what I've seen.

Cams for my car are like 600 bucks. A cat back is a steal at 500. An intake is 200, 1300 and you gain like 35hp, you'll see like 200whp which is good for 14s. How much do you think it would cost to build a 2332 like you said. And how much more to t3s weigh over T1s?

Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:03 pm

if you build it, about 2500 bucks turnkey. with a new case.
case with required work 500
cam w/gear 60
p/c's 180
barrell spacers 40
i-beam rods with arp bolts 175
welded counterweighted crank 375
oil pump 40
tin/fan/alt new 300
ratio rockers 150+
exhaust anywhere from 100 to 400
carbs 400 to 1300
mesa cooler/fan 150
deep sump 80
odds and ends... 200

on the lower end of all these prices is $2530

Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:11 pm

odds and ends... 200

Yeah I would say more like .....800.00 extra..

Dont forget ...
Head work
complete balence of all parts
clutch/pressure plate combo
Full flow set-up
custom pushrods...chromoly...

also you will need at least a 1.5 qt deep sump

Just make sure you have ALL your bases covered

Thu Nov 20, 2003 4:25 am

Now I'm assuming I would need all of these things to build a 1775 or 1835 that woudl just be "fun" but woul donly get me into the 16s. So if the cost would be the same, why go with a smaller motor?

Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:05 am

Chronogoof89 wrote: Now I'm assuming I would need all of these things to build a 1775 or 1835 that woudl just be "fun" but woul donly get me into the 16s. So if the cost would be the same, why go with a smaller motor?

Dependability.
nik

Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:59 am

another falacy... if my 2332 only needs revved to 3500rpm and your 1775 needs 5000rpm to get moving quickly, which is going to last longer?

Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:00 am

Really what it all comes down to is $$$$$$$$$$$

You know the saying "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"

Plan on spending at least 3k, then you are covered..deceid what you want to do Race/street/daily driver....

IF you dont care about how long a motor lasts then make a 1776 with high compression....It wont last long but it will screeeeem down the track while it does.
My first 1776 got me into the low 15's..but that was a stripped down car, slicks,race gas high compression motor...it only lived for about 8 passes...but that is what i wanted it do .