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Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:51 pm

Has anyone had the chance to run the cb performance black box to turn a vacuum advance dissy into an electric advance?

Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:59 am

I saw it yesterday for the first time.

Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:01 am

i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box?

Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:16 pm

you can map the timing curve to suit your engines needs with any dist...even an 09. pop,fart, lazy in &clean power out.

Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:50 pm

evolsiknup wrote: i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box? The black box will function with or without an external ignition box like an MSD or Mallory. You can wire the Black box directly to your coil and control timing or wire it to your MSD box and control timing. It will work with most any distributor other than a Magneto. There is a internal 5 bar map sensor for boosted applications, 2 step rev limit control and high end rev limit control.

Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:55 pm

Pat D wrote: evolsiknup wrote: i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box? The black box will function with or without an external ignition box like an MSD or Mallory. You can wire the Black box directly to your coil and control timing or wire it to your MSD box and control timing. It will work with most any distributor other than a Magneto. There is a internal 5 bar map sensor for boosted applications, 2 step rev limit control and high end rev limit control.

Sounds like fun! I believe I'll be adding one of these to my list of parts for the 2176!

Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:29 pm

"Serial Cable Included (some computers may require #2015 USB to Serial Adapter)"

Really? Do computers even come with serial ports anymore? I would think USB would be the way to go these days.

Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:51 pm

Ragman wrote: "Serial Cable Included (some computers may require #2015 USB to Serial Adapter)"

Really? Do computers even come with serial ports anymore? .

yes... at least my laptop did... it does have 6 usb ports though...

Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:04 pm

I recently helped a friend install a ford aod-e trans in his 83 mustang. The ecu to control the tranny used a serial cable. I used my laptop to set it up. Needed a serial to USB adapter cable and had to download a driver to make it work. I also wondered why a modern controller still utilizes a serial cable. The CNC machines at work require the same serial to USB adapter to upload files from the shop laptop. Plenty of the new EFI stuff out there still uses the same serial technology. I wonder why a seemingly archaic technology is still used by the automotive aftermarket.

Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:52 am

Big Stuff 3 has USB connection, serial is a good way to do it if you have a PC with the interface. Less buggy than USB and their wonky drivers.

Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:08 am

Researching homebuilt CNC mills, the question comes up frequently. I can't vouch for the accuracy but the reply is along the lines that most USBs follow the current "power saving" approach and can drop out when you least want it. Applications that aren't doing "real time" just kick it back awake and either restart at the beginning of the data stream or try to pick up where they left off.

Some of the stepper motor driver board manufacturers are now making boards with USB ports but recommend specific aftermarket USB boards that won't sleep and warn against using the native ports in the computer.

Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:27 pm

Helping customers load the USB drivers can be a challenge. The USB/Serial adapter we sell works well and installs easily.

Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:33 pm

My digital 6 Plus MSD box just took a sh*t, so instead of spending 300+ bucks for a new one I could basically buy this and have 2 stage limiters AND control of my timing via a computer and all I would have to do is lock out my dist.?
How are limiters activated?
If I used this without the MSD box would I still be DOA if the Black Box dies?

Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:24 am

rrcade wrote: My digital 6 Plus MSD box just took a sh*t, so instead of spending 300+ bucks for a new one I could basically buy this and have 2 stage limiters AND control of my timing via a computer and all I would have to do is lock out my dist.?
How are limiters activated?
If I used this without the MSD box would I still be DOA if the Black Box dies? Yes you could eliminate your digital 6 and use this to control timing. If the Black Box ever had an issue, all you would need to do is wire your distributor to your coil but this only will work if the distributor has an ignition module. The Black Box has a single ground input for the launch rpm rev limiter, adjustable from 500 to 15K rpm. The high rpm limiter is good to 15K rpm.

Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:08 am

Yea once I got the USB to serial driver installed, got the baud rate right, right com port etc. It worked well.

Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:58 am

Pat D wrote: evolsiknup wrote: i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box? The black box will function with or without an external ignition box like an MSD or Mallory. You can wire the Black box directly to your coil and control timing or wire it to your MSD box and control timing. It will work with most any distributor other than a Magneto. There is a internal 5 bar map sensor for boosted applications, 2 step rev limit control and high end rev limit control.

without using a TPS to reference the X or Y axis vs RPM scale on the timing values

does the 5bar map sensor act as the reference? say on the horizontal columns as hg/mm to rpm referencing load so we can adjust on each load/section on the 21x21 table ? so it has a vacuum source/plug for it?

im assuming its totally programmable like that
or just an "adjustable curve" on the fly

either way, this product is cool and on my list to get :)

Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:00 am

ralf wrote: Pat D wrote: evolsiknup wrote: i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box? The black box will function with or without an external ignition box like an MSD or Mallory. You can wire the Black box directly to your coil and control timing or wire it to your MSD box and control timing. It will work with most any distributor other than a Magneto. There is a internal 5 bar map sensor for boosted applications, 2 step rev limit control and high end rev limit control.

without using a TPS to reference the X or Y axis vs RPM scale on the timing values

does the 5bar map sensor act as the reference? say on the horizontal columns as hg/mm to rpm referencing load so we can adjust on each load/section on the 21x21 table ? so it has a vacuum source/plug for it?

im assuming its totally programmable like that
or just an "adjustable curve" on the fly

either way, this product is cool and on my list to get :) It uses RPM and load/Map sensor for reference. You can not see it in the advertising picture but there is a vacuum port on the end of the case for vacuum. It has 21 load and 21 rpm columns that are adjustable for the best resolution possible. This gives you 441 individual ignition timing cells in your timing map that can be tailored to your engine. For example, a typical street engine with a 6k rev limit, you will be able to adjust ignition timing every 300 rpms in 441 different cells. A stock engine with a 4200 rev limit can be adjusted every 200 rpms in 441 cells and a drag race engine with a 8400 rpm limit can have timing adjusted every 400 rpms in 441 cells. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. We are going to do a software video this week to help better understand the system.

Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:12 am

ap_sand wrote: Researching homebuilt CNC mills, the question comes up frequently. I can't vouch for the accuracy but the reply is along the lines that most USBs follow the current "power saving" approach and can drop out when you least want it. Applications that aren't doing "real time" just kick it back awake and either restart at the beginning of the data stream or try to pick up where they left off.

Some of the stepper motor driver board manufacturers are now making boards with USB ports but recommend specific aftermarket USB boards that won't sleep and warn against using the native ports in the computer.

Go to your control panel and under advanced power settings you can prevent your USB ports from going to sleep or just about anything else on your computer.

Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:16 am

Pat D wrote: ralf wrote: Pat D wrote: evolsiknup wrote: i dont understand how the black box works.

the black box is similar to MSD Ignition box or hi fire ?

can MSD distributor be use with the black box without MSD Ignition box? The black box will function with or without an external ignition box like an MSD or Mallory. You can wire the Black box directly to your coil and control timing or wire it to your MSD box and control timing. It will work with most any distributor other than a Magneto. There is a internal 5 bar map sensor for boosted applications, 2 step rev limit control and high end rev limit control.

without using a TPS to reference the X or Y axis vs RPM scale on the timing values

does the 5bar map sensor act as the reference? say on the horizontal columns as hg/mm to rpm referencing load so we can adjust on each load/section on the 21x21 table ? so it has a vacuum source/plug for it?

im assuming its totally programmable like that
or just an "adjustable curve" on the fly

either way, this product is cool and on my list to get :) It uses RPM and load/Map sensor for reference. You can not see it in the advertising picture but there is a vacuum port on the end of the case for vacuum. It has 21 load and 21 rpm columns that are adjustable for the best resolution possible. This gives you 441 individual ignition timing cells in your timing map that can be tailored to your engine. For example, a typical street engine with a 6k rev limit, you will be able to adjust ignition timing every 300 rpms in 441 different cells. A stock engine with a 4200 rev limit can be adjusted every 200 rpms in 441 cells and a drag race engine with a 8400 rpm limit can have timing adjusted every 400 rpms in 441 cells. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. We are going to do a software video this week to help better understand the system.

thanks pat! i tune efi's on a regular basis so i know wat u mean..

i was just curious as the pictures and descriptions didnt say it clear on wat "load" sensing it used aside from 4bar map for turbo use :)

it didnt show any tps source so Alpha N was out of the question (bfor i asked about the map)

awesome new product then! im getting one soon!

Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:28 am

I will probably purchase one of these Black Boxes but I have a couple of questions about the install. I am running an 009 with a Pertronix module. Do you have to set up the Pertronix module to trigger the black box at a certain angle relative to the rotor and cap post? Now that the mechanical advance is locked out will the rotor tip always be in the correct spot relative to the cap post when the ignition is at full advance?
Also, I am running 40HPMX's will the vacuum port on just one of the carbs be sufficient and stable enough for the map input or do I need to tee the two carbs together?
Thanks