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Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:20 pm

i am about to buy a square and want to know what kind of air suspension could i use. is there any good ideas out there? air shcoks air bag setup?
help me!!?!?!?!?

Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:24 pm

I don't know how it's done but it can be done. I don't know how. Don't sound so desperate. The car already has a good suspension, torsion bar with trailing arms. It works quite well. Maybe you should try it.

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 am

If anyone knows a way to get ahold of BerT3, he has bags on his T3. He also has a site with very good pictures and explanations. Looks like a long and tedious process of metal fabrication and measurements. I will search for it tonight.
nik

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:10 am

air bags are hard to do in the front of a type 3, there is only one guy I know of that has done it, he is in belgum. Dont even think about it if you want a kit, there is none. Expect to pay $2k plus for the front, realize you must make EVERYTHING including your own drop spindles, as none are available for a type 3

here are pics: http://www.lo-rdz.co.uk/cgi-bin/iB3/ikonboard.cgi?s=7711088ab9029cd4a41acdac7f608503;act=ST;f=4;t=44

here is his website (under construction): http://www.bert3.be/

Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:11 am

Well, hell, that didn't take me long.
http://www.bert3.be/
Everything you could want and then some. He has lots of useful info to share and he frequently visits here.
nik

Mon Nov 24, 2003 1:55 am

Hello,

Here I am :D

I visit this forum everyday a dozen times. Don't post much in general.

I proofed it's possible to bag a T3. I got loads of mails about the setup.

Basicly, don't ask if you aren't prepared to pay a lot. The parts alone are really expensive. The setup took me 2 years to complete.

In any case, DON'T use air shocks or air cylinders despite what others say.
If it was that easy, I would have done it !

Feel free to ask,

Van der Jeught Bert,
BELGIUM

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:43 pm

Have you looked into custom suspension shops to make a kit for you?

call these guys up www.aimind.com

I work there and we just prototyped a bag setup for a 59 oval. We also have kits for any type 1 you got, early/late/super. However we dont have a kit right now for a type 3. Im sure you pay over 2 grand for a complete FBSS kit. I am goin to have my 64 bus prototyped for a trick bag setup in the next coming months but i havto pay before they will even start working on it, just like a t3 kit.

And i agree with Ber, airshocks suck, air cylinders are very hard to use in a vw front suspension but in the rear they are ok. Bags are the best bet as far as ride, load rating and longest life if the kits are designed right.

Ber - Have those airlift bags blown on you yet? Man they are cheap pieces of crap, plastic mounts and 1/4 ports :x

weve talked on the STF before, im Vince. Did you ever get another set of front bags to replace the rear ones?

Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:51 pm

Ber - I was checkin out your site and i saw you only got 4.5 inches of travel on the front. Did you purposely limit it? My modified air lift front setup for my bug got 9 inches but only with upgraded bags. There was no way the bags that came with the kit could survive the angles.

Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:15 pm

Hello,

Vince:
No, the bags haven't blown yet. I designed the brackets to compensate extreme angles in every way.

Yes, I have the new bags already. Upgraded the air management setup too with all the parts I described on my website (except the digital setup itself)

I even designed a uni-ball setup for the rear which is already finished and tested too.

It's just that I haven't updated the website lately. I actually just have a new PC because my laptop got wrecked in the house move.

The stock T3 front setup limits the travel. No way you can get more travel at the front. I got the max out of it after cutting the bumpstops. The ball joint would die. The front is almost on the ground.

I don't believe in a T3 setup sold by a mass producing company. I know how many hours I put in the setup.

You NEED dropped spindles to gain pre-drop to avoid extreme angles.

BTW my surname is BERT :D

Van der Jeught Bert,
BELGIUM

Tue Nov 25, 2003 10:11 pm

lol, sorry Bert.

I second the drop spindles. But you should see my bag angles, at a full drop i get about 90 degrees. But the billet mounts and crimp rings never failed me, the rings are about 1/4 long and i crimped the bags at 300#.

I still think that for a daily driver sleeve bags arent the way to go but sometimes you just havto use em.

And i know what your saying about the mass production thing. I put alot of hours into my setup to and we ended up pretty much copying it but making it a bolt on. You wouldnt believe how fast they made a production kit. Shoot, ide make some crazy shit too if i had a laser and 12 million in cnc machines like Aim.

Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:11 pm

greenbugben wrote: i am about to buy a square and want to know what kind of air suspension could i use. is there any good ideas out there? air shcoks air bag setup?
help me!!?!?!?!?

I've seen a few low squares, If your just after height you don't have to go with airbags,...
This one is stock suspension...

See how low it sits next to my stock height fasty?
This notch also uses stock suspension

Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:31 pm

I dont mean to be offensive or anything bert3, but my 67 square is as low as yours is when the bags are all the way out. I lowered it 5 clicks up front and 3 in the back. you cant just cut the bump stops off when you do this, you have to cut the entire arm off. Although i must say you have one sick setup. Wish i had the knowhow and time to build something of that caliber.

Paul

Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:23 pm

A T3 on bags would be cool. Keep us posted. :wink:

Tue Dec 02, 2003 8:57 am

Hello,

the bad samaritan:
I need the top bumpstop to prevent overinflating. The steering arms would interfere with the frame head.

No way I would cut off the entire arm off.

I used those dropped spindles to prevent the balljoints from wearing out to quick and gaining travel.

MEANIRISHMOFO :
Quote: A T3 on bags would be cool. Keep us posted.
I have one, check my website.

Van der Jeught Bert,
BELGIUM

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:02 pm

greetings again all those in type 3 land.....

sounds like a riddle with type 3 front air ride suspension. man hours, $$$$$ and what not....what about welding in a type 1 front end and have all the parts available? might be doable witha fiberglass one piece front end...just sayin.....

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:08 pm

surftypeman wrote: greetings again all those in type 3 land.....

sounds like a riddle with type 3 front air ride suspension. man hours, $$$$$ and what not....what about welding in a type 1 front end and have all the parts available? might be doable witha fiberglass one piece front end...just sayin.....
Umm... no... Not even close... and a complete waste of a T3... and a bug for that matter...

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:12 pm

As Bert and I have discussed on the STF, it is very doable, and probably a lot easier, BUT I feel (and from previous discussions, so does Bert) that swapping to a type 1 beam is a step backwards in quality. The type 3 front beam is much better in design than the type1. One only needs to drive a stock bug and a stock type 3 to see this. VW truley had done it's homework when designing the type 3 beam, it is better than the type 1 beam in every way. Driving a type 3 when lowered is very comperable to driving an early porsche, the type 1 just cant compare in my opinion

Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:31 pm

alright then,
thanks for the reply guys......
goes without saying that air riders club was WRONG as it is possible and for that matter it is even CLOSE and doable. as for a waste, if you rip up a mickey mantle baseball card, it makes all the other more valuable...words of jesse james on monster garage....
sorry that you are stuck in not doable land.

Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:15 pm

Yeah i understand now why you keep the arms in there ber. As for the bug beam on a type threee my friends are doing that, at the same time raising it up 1.5 to 2 inches, smoothing the floorpan, etc. We are in the process of fabricating the bag ass. Our goal is to lay rocker on the ground.

paul

Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:16 pm

Yeah i understand now why you keep the arms in there ber. As for the bug beam on a type threee my friends are doing that, at the same time raising it up 1.5 to 2 inches, smoothing the floorpan, etc. We are in the process of fabricating the bag ass. Our goal is to lay rocker on the ground.

paul