TheSamba.com :: View topic - Need Brace Ideas before lifting body? (Pics)

Sat Sep 14, 2013 8:40 am

This is how far I got cutting before I realized the body has to come off to do this car right. So I need an idea to brace this spot. The paint on this car is nice so I am trying to preserve that.

I was thinking a turnbuckle style brace between the hole near the bottom of a-pillar up to firewall perhaps? I don't mind removing a little paint off inside a-pillar for weld as I can touch that up and will be covered ultimately.

The car does sag at that corner right now. I can jack about 1/4" or so to get straight and door closes straight then. I do intend to leave doors in.

Red would represent threaded rod and blue turnbuckle in middle??? All ideas welcome. I also need brace to not be in the way so i can work and redo that corner or heater channel???

All other ideas about this welcome. Well I am a fairly competent shade tree mechanic and average welder this is the hardest thing I will ever do. I am not trying to make a show car, just solid driver. The body is great on this car and most of the heater channel actually is from back of that point.

Sat Sep 14, 2013 9:52 am

I think this is more of a setup concern than moving concern.

I'd say first off, set up (with a level) an absolutely level platform to support the body. Then clamp / bolt the body to it. Then make and compare a lot of measurements inside the body and on the pan. When you can prove that your body is "square", do your metal work. Or, perhaps, bolt your body to "real strong" square tubes between pan bolt locations at the correct width, and then place those absolutely level. Sometimes a correct setup takes more time, effort, thought and $ than the job itself.

Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:40 am

I would tack/weld the new pans in first and then tack/weld the body sections on the new pans. Get them both tack/welded and then separate them for finish welding/paint?

Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:50 am

I will actually be doing full pans forgot to add that. So I think I see that as a viable option. I understand the square and level aspect but I am going to assume this body will never be that perfect.

Once pans are in that gives me probably the best level surface I would need I think not that you say that.

I intend to take a bunch of measurements to ensure at least new pan bolt holes would be in same place as original.

Any issue with lifting body as it is with doors closed?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:25 am

OK to lift like this with doors closed?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:23 am

You don't really want to lift it until you weld in a new/solid used replacement piece. Buy the new pans and do them first. Then weld in a good used 'cut to order' heater channel/inner fender like these Type 3 pieces I sell/ship world wide matched to your new pans. I watch the WTB ads or they ask me as I am well known for 'cut to order' pieces from my 9 squarebacks.

I am shipping this cowl to Indiana this week for $250.

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:04 am

But to do the pans first I need to lift the body somewhat at least at rear corner now. I guess given the way my front corner is all cut out no need there I suppose and can see putting pan in.

I have replacement channel bottoms and front corner pieces I hoped to use what I need of. Also a firewall I will cut what I need out of.

I am expecting similar finds on driver side and outer corner of napoleons hats will be grafted on as well.

I have seen the pieces you sell, I am trying to preserve as much of my original sheet metal as possible as it is painted nicely about 7-8 years ago. So the tops of my heater channels in door are nice, a-pillar etc. Or at least as nice as I hope on this car and don't want to repaint.

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:18 pm

Hate to tell you, but once you start welding, that nice paint is going to bubble off. I wouldn't let the nice paint sway you from a proper repair. Besides most of those repair areas will be behind carpet, or running boards, or inside wheel wells, etc....

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm

I know, I know. So I guess then I should lift body only slightly in order to be able to get full pan in at back edge. Put body back down. Bolt pan in place at a couple points on heater channel to ensure it is in correct place and tack pan in.

Then from there build my way back up heater channel bottom to heater channel itself to body at front corner area.

When that is done I can build my firewall back to it. Tack it all up and then finally when body is lifted finish welding it all.

Beetlenut keep in mind my captive nuts are in heater channel which passes through firewall to front of firewall unlike your super.

Easy peasy, should take 5 minutes :lol:

Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:56 pm

On another note, I have .023 wire in my welder which I have been practicing on sheet metal with and working well. Do you think I need to go to .030 for the bottom plate Napoleon hat area?

Mon Sep 16, 2013 2:11 pm

you can use the small wire for some pretty thick stuff just turn up the power and feed speed to match the thickness you are working on.
as far as bracing, if you think it is still in the correct position, the key is triangles.
go on facebook and look for the Restoration Project. You will find lots of body off projects and you can see what I mean. You set up a triangle in every direction that the body can "rack" or rotate/flex on you. You can approach it from the idea of making lots of X's across all the directions in the inner body box, just make sure to secure the middle of the X. This again creates lots of triangles. Better safe than sorry

Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:13 pm

Thanks for the tips.

I think based on this thread and thinking more I will repair Napoleon hat end, put pans in, bolt body back in. Using a jack I can get it in good position and tack heater channel repair panels in place to ensure they are correct fit.

This will require at least body loose to put pans in though. I will have to life slightly to slip pan in so I don;t have to cut at back. Clearly up front it will just go in there.

This should get me close to what I need before lifting body off where I can finish my welds in the area.

That's the current working theory at least.

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:03 am

Even for the full pan, I don't think you have to lift the body as the pan should slide in from the side of the car, with the lips to weld to being on the tunnel, Napoleon's hat, and rear chassis support. The hump for the front seat mount may cause a problem though. I didn't have to lift the body, but I did my floors in quarters, so maybe that made the difference. Other than that, your plan sounds good, specially in aligining and attaching the floorpan sections to the heater channel captive nuts, before welding into place.

Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:34 am

Thanks. I thought from the bug me videos there is some little rear corner (circled in red?) I may have to snip off if body is not lifted.

I should have the full floors Thursday if fedex delivers and have a better idea looking at them.

Do the rear angle parts ofthe pan (circled in yellow) fit over a main chasss support or are they support?

Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:05 am

You don't have to use 100% of the new pan. Use the 95% that makes the installation/welding the easiest at both ends.

Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:10 am

Yeah once I get pan and can look at car again next weekend I'll figure what to cut off and use, I'd like to use as much as possible though.

Whether the seat mount will be on is hit or miss. I can deal with that either way though.

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:13 pm

MK5GOLFGTI wrote: ...Do the rear angle parts of the pan (circled in yellow) fit over a main chasss support or are they support?

That rear angled part of the pan IS the rear chassis support and contains two captive nuts for bolting the body down back there . Some pans don't come with it, and you end up welding the rear of the pan to the bottom lip of that support. That outrigger or rear chassis support is welded to the tunnel in the area circled in yellow next to the access plate hole. If yours is in good shape, it is probably a lot thicker than the one that comes on the pans. So you might consider that.

Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:31 pm

Yeah I have all those bolts out, again to my point though to know for sure the shape its in I feel like I have to lift this body at least a little before I make decision of what part of pan to use and heater channel repair.