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Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:19 pm

Hi folks,

I currently have a stock long axle bug swing axle set up on my bus with stepped spring plates. Onto this I have fitted NA 944 porsche discs. I currently have 5.5" Fuchs with 185/65r15 tyres.

My aim is to fit some 15x8" fuchs, my thought was to narrow the torsion housings and fit bug short axles and then not have to run stepped spring plates. But I'm wondering if can make the 944 hubs work on the short splines. I know would have to machine out the backing plate to fit over the bearing.
But then suddenly thought with short axles am I going to run into clearance issues with wheel to springplate. I don't know the offset of the Fuchs. So as anyone made it work with 15x8's on the rear of their bus and if so how have you gone about it.

Oh I run low too...... Am considering an engine / gearbox raise to reduce the camber too.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:27 pm

This being the sort of thing I want to achieve.......

Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:37 pm

A 15x8 will fit on the back of a bus fine with a short axle set up. The offset will have to be 0 or really close for them to fit well. The 944 hubs, i know nothing about fitment on short axles.

Also I dont think you're too low. There are a couple buses running that low that I've seen with wide rims.

My old one had short axles and 15x8 rims. Although I have new style wheel wells. I couldn't fit a 2x4 under the cradle that was already trimmed.

Dirtylawnchair posted this on KCW. I believe its his buddies bus.

I say do it!! However I will warn you. You will eat fulcrum plates faster than you are now. I have been working on fitting 15x7 0 offset rims on the back of my 60 now. But I decided to go IRS. I have narrowed the arms 1.25" to fit them. I believe I could fit a 15x8 0 offset in the rear easy now. But I will have to C notch the frame because it pushed my axle boots into the frame area. I think that may be a better idea than a trans raise on your bus. Or maybe go with a bay IRS set up and narrow that. It will eliminate the camber and the issues with going super low with a swing axle. But it is a ton more work to get everything to fit properly when wanted to go as low as a swing axle.

Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:44 am

Thanks for the reply :)

I may have to consider the IRS route if needs be. Would prefer not to have to but if is the only way. How did u go about narrowing the arms?

Pretty sure the Fuchs are no where near 0 offset though lol. Anyone managed to get them on? Or anyone know of fitting ur 944 stuff to the short axles?

Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:01 pm

From what I gather from a quick search the offset is 10.6mm. The backspacing would be 5". A 0mm offset has a 4.5" backspacing. It may be close to the spring plate. And then you have to think about the camber involved. It will most likely rub the top of the tire if you go as low as you are. You may be able to run a 3/8" spacer to help some and still fit the rim inside the wheel well properly.

Another thing I read was the the 944 stuff bolts right onto the IRS arms without any mods.

I ran across the quote from Russell. If you can get the 944 stuff to fit the short axle, I'm not sure you would be able to fit the rim with the added width from the brakes...

[email protected] wrote: [email protected] wrote: the early 944 rear brake backing plates and hubs can be machined to fit the swing axle. we charge $100 to machine both rear hubs and backing plates if you send your stuff in. we also sell complete rear disc brake set-ups starting at $750 with genuine 944 parts. however....we seldom recommend the 944 rear disc brake kits on a swing axle rear bus due to the increased track width. in my opinion it is better to use a type 1 rear disc brake kit porsche pattern that allows you to fit deep six fuchs and a 205/65/15 rear tire. the 944 brake kit is good if you need the extra offset to fit 17 x 7 boxsters. hand bake is easy either way. the type 1 rear kit for bus with 5 x 130 pattern and handbrake is $400.

Revised my opinion of the 944 rear brakes. Worth the extra work to get the wheels and tires off. Extra 7/8 inch track width not detrimental enough to warrant using a type 1 kit if your budget allows the 944.
I still feel that type 1 stops fine. In fact many busses we have done have 944 front and bug drum rear with bug front wheel cylinders. They stop fine but of course not as well as 4 wheel 944

562 531 4190
Russell

Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:06 pm

This is how I narrowed my arms.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2840603#2840603

The axle you will need is also mentioned in that thread. It is a left hand side auto axle from a type 3. I narrowed my arms 1.25" and stepped them 3". I did box in the inside of my arms a lot more than what was done in the post.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:27 am

Cool thanks dude, that's some useful information, will have to contact old speed see what he knows about making them work on the short. Maybe the extra width from the brakes will help clearance for springplate but my be a hindrance for clearance on the outside.

Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:20 pm

In all honesty, if you can get the hubs to work with short axle, you'll only be 3/8" wider than you would be if you were with a 0 offset wheel without 944 hubs. I bet it works fine. You'll just have to keep an eye on it rubbing on the inside of the tire well before it rubs the top because of the camber. I look forward to seeing it though. I think buses look best with wide wheels tucked in the rear.

Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:51 am

Found some useful info regarding Fuchs offsets and back spacing for reference

Back spacing is same for the 8's as it is for the 5.5's which is good. I may be able to make it work without narrowing, in sure I measured a 2 and 3/4" gap between my 5.5 rim and the arch of the bus before, gonna crack the tape measure out when I get home from work.

Also for reference have found that machining 15mm off the outer bit of the hub centre, where the hub nut sits against allows them to fit on the short spline axle. Not tried it yet but have heard from 2 people who have.

There is def something about an 8 being tucked under there that just seems so right :)

Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:25 am

FYI, the tire will get wider also. I once tried the same 215/65 on a 6" rim and a 7" rim, the tire was 5/8" wider on the 7" rim.

Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:51 am

Tyres will indeed stretch out when fitted to the wider rim. I plan on r big 195/60 r 15. Or even stretch out the 185's.

Just measured and I do indeed have exactly 2 and 3/4 inch gap between the rim and bodywork. So quarter inch clearance hmmmmm may be able tomake this work without too much hassle. Other than the physical getting the wheel on and off haha

Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:39 pm

I ran a 195/55 on my 8" rim. Im currently running the same size on my 7" for the rear of my new bus. Remember about suspension movement also when measuring because your swing axle does not move up and down like an IRS. Please keep this updated as I'm following and love your bus. I, too, think buses are made for a wide rim in the rear.

Here is a pretty sweet site that post all different size tires on different rims to see the stretch you will get.
http://tyrestretch.com/

Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:22 am

A friend has done a quick photoshop for me......

This is pretty much the aim :)

Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:09 pm

Do you have the rims yet?

Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:47 am

They are still crossing the water at the moment, threw them in a friends bus for shipping over.

Hopefully have them mid January

Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:20 am

Its been a while for this thread but theres some good info here. Ive had it bookmarked for a while knowing id like to do this at some point. I have a set of 8x15s id like to get on my 63 DC. Im low but not as low as pictured in the thread b/c im hauling alot of shinnenegans of various weight and have a messed up driveway.

So just to be clear it sounds as if a few methods are out there one of which is via IRS susp. Can somone specify and or recap, if using swing and NOT iRS, what mods are required? Please be specific, im new to the bus world mainly been type1s.

specs are:

- Fuchs 8x15
- Wilwood calipers w ebrake cables
- swing axle
- no reduction boxes

Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:57 am

I probably should have updated this haha! I've actually sold the mango a while back before I ever got round to fitting the wheels. They wheels are tucked away in the garage still.

I did however get some adjustable springplates made ready to narrow the rear torsion housing by 1.5" each side. The springplates were designed to still use full length torsion springs.

These would mean short axles can go straight in. I planned on modifying the Porsche hubs to fit the short splines of short axles.

As I sold the mango before getting there, a friend has narrowed the rear of his 58 using the springplates, and is now running short axles and some slightly wider rear wheels.

I was also planning on raising the engine and box to reduce the amount of camber using the straight axle method.

With my new bus, the rear end is already narrower than a later split, so I could just use short axles and put my wheels on there however we are experimenting with IRS to go very low, due to not wanting to cut the bus too much.

Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:51 am

ooo those look saucy. Seriously, where can i get some of those?

So if understand correctly - do these spring plates help with moving the tire/wheel (offending area) inward for more wheel/offset/ backspacing clearance? Other benefits are use of stock torsion (oem spring rate) avoidance of torsion modification or sourcing an additional part.

Are there any other areas that need clearance like the inner wheel tub? Id like to avoid cutting anything if possible and jsut pop in a short axle assembly. Im not sure what hubs i'm currently running with the fuchs (i.e. oem Porsche or aftermarket).

and forgive me - short axles can be sourced from what cars for this conversion? Are there only a few options for finding axle tubes and axles? Where do you recommend i start sourcing this stuff. I've already got the wheels.

thanks for the info. This is a cool thread and there's not a lot of info out there.

Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:38 pm

These were made for me by Alex at Transporterhaus here in the UK. He only made 2 sets, one for me one for him, but I'm sure he'd make them again. He builds fantastic products.

Yes that's right, these move the spring plate itself in by 1.5" so you could bolt in a standard long axle or short axle swing axle box from a beetle. You have to modify the torsion housing, which isn't as bad as it sounds but does require some good welding.

Short axle beetles were up to 67, so you would want axles and tubes from a pre 67 bug. Hub wise it is a little more tricky as the splined bit is shorter also on a short axle, so early beetles had narrower rear drums. You can get drums in Porsche pattern for them though.

Depending on how low you want to go will determine if you need to do any more metal work for clearance, the mango needed tubs on the rear as it scrubbed badly. Also the lower you go the more camber you have so the top inside edge of the wheel gets closer to the inside of the wheel tub.

My friend who ended up using these springplates has tubbed the rear of his bus now too, as he is also fairly low.

Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:20 am

very helpful thank you. Any pics on the torsion housing mod or tubbed fender wells from inside the engine bay?

re the hubs would you mind going into a little more detail there? whats the main challenge there? More specifics on the challenges with the splines would be nice. Also in an earlier post somone mentioned machnining something, is this part of the goal here?

Also adding a link re axles:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=443075&highlight=short+axles