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Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:28 am

I broke some stuff on my last Glamis trip (spud on one side, spindle link on the other) and in taking the front end apart and then back together I am finding some issues. I have a feeling it may be the trailing arms and the lack of quality of construction on them.
Background is that I just got this buggy so I don't have all the facts. Everything worked fine the first couple trips and then in Glamis the sand was REAL wet and I think it exposed some weaknesses.

OK so I got the spud fixed in G. It was the driver side with the hole through it and is now replaced with a chromoly unit. The spindle link broke on the last ride and when I got it home and took it apart I had a local guy machine/press/ream it back together with the new parts (link, kngpin, bushings).

Now upon putting things back together I find that I basically have zero offset from lower to upper trailing arms. I can't find anything that is bent, at least that I can tell and suspect the trailing arms just aren't made that well. They are plus 4 and I suspect Empi (but no stamp) or Latest Rage.

Can I shim the link pins in a way that will work? The chart doesn't cover this and I know I should have between 5 and 9 mm. Keep in mind this is an offroad, sand car only.

It is not the car in my avater, here are some pics.

Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:44 am

nothing?

Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:37 pm

only way to know is if they had an offset when you first installed them.If they did then something is bent or a trailing arm isnt going all the way in.

If you didnt install them then who knows what is suspect.

One reason i went to combos for my buggy was i didnt ever want to worry about breaking a spindle.I go to glamis all the time and most its holiday weekends where the sand is torn up the older cars take a beating out there.For me it was a chunk to spend on the tweeeds but its a small price on safety.

Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:36 pm

77charger wrote: only way to know is if they had an offset when you first installed them.If they did then something is bent or a trailing arm isnt going all the way in.

If you didnt install them then who knows what is suspect.

One reason i went to combos for my buggy was i didnt ever want to worry about breaking a spindle.I go to glamis all the time and most its holiday weekends where the sand is torn up the older cars take a beating out there.For me it was a chunk to spend on the tweeeds but its a small price on safety.

Yeah, Tweeds are on the list. I'm going to do the spindles and the arms. What does that mean for my wheels? Just change bearings or does the whole inner hub get replaced?
As for the offset, they are both pretty much at zero. Not sure how they could have both bent the same. Driving back from China Wall on 3 wheels and plowing that lower arm into the sand a couple dozen times might have done it but funny how they match and I see no sign of bending.When the second one let go we were pretty much at camp and judging by how it broke and the wear marks, it wasn't right to begin with.
When I pulled the other side off that I repaired at Glamis it had a total of 13 shims on the top link pin so that one was screwy too.
I won't have the dough to do the new parts (already bought new spindle links and king pins) for a while so I got to figure something out to move those arms out just a little and I got a couple ideas that I don't think will compromise my life :shock: or that of a passenger more importantly. So far I'm not too happy with this car.....the old light duty, light weight SS$ front end never broke in 3 years.

Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:24 pm

if you got the wheels with the sealed bearings you will have to change wheels too.

Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:55 pm

Not sealed, I just repacked them.
I got the one side together so that it is tight and cycles all the way through the travel stroke.
I had to put 13 shims on the bottom inside to accomplish this though. I know it's not right and against VW voodoo but I am sure it is a far site better than what it was. That side was shimmed pretty normal but you could tell it had to be loose by the way the link cut into the arm. I think everytime it cycled that spindle link was wanting to twist.
I basically had to make up 2.8 mm so everything sat tight. The link pin worked and the clamp bolt went through the notch...

Never had any kind of VW (except the engine in my other buggy) so had no idea how much was going on in the beam front end.......and this is with coil over. I could imagine the headaches with the torsion stuff.
BTW I checked the beam and it looks good.

The left side had the shim really screwy and between the 2 sides I have a total of 30 shims that came out.

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:03 pm

Does anybody have any input regarding 13 shims on the lower inside to make this work? What are the possible consequences?

The other idea I had was to add a trailing arm grease seal to each lower arm ahead of the bushing to shim it out. If they are the same thickness of the bushing ends that are there now they are about 9mm and that would put me within specs of the shim chart. It would also push the trailing arm out of the beam that much and I'm sure that's not good either.... :shock: just got to get through a couple trips and I will get the combos and new arms..for now I'm liking the shims. I picked up some grade 8 5/8 washers that are a little thicker and the exact same size and was thinking of one on each side of the "stack"

Here's the grease seals, I found some for 13 bucks and ordered them to at least check them out.
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/bug...ed-p-13333

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:15 pm

My arms were the same way I ended up filing down the top arm so I could shim to spec. I have two seasons on it and no wierd wear or any problems

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:19 pm

baja jerry wrote: My arms were the same way I ended up filing down the top arm so I could shim to spec. I have two seasons on it and no wierd wear or any problems

I thought about doing that. You filed it at the end where the spindle meets it or where it goes into the beam?
If you filed the end of the arm, did that affect the notch in the link pin matching up to the lock bolt or if so did you just add more outside shims?

Also, what kind of arms do you have?

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:29 pm

I filed the end the spindle meets up with I have tweed 4" over arms. It didn't effect the notch in the link pins I went the minimum offset according to the manual

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:33 pm

so with the Tweed arms, what do you think the offset issue was caused by? Has to be in the beam at that point, right?
They were both (sides) even at zero?

Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:37 pm

No only one side on my arms I heard he doesn't have the best jig but other than the offset the arms have been great. I also installed mine in a new beam also

Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:31 am

In this case, the manual does not apply. I have a similar set up, new beam, 2 1/ 4 arms and combos. It took 5 shims on the inside to get everything lined up properly. If it cycles freely and the geometry stays the same, you are good to go.

Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:50 am

You could pull apart the passenger side and check the offset there. I suspect you bent an arm when the spindle broke.

Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:19 am

Both fronts are the same. It was actually when I pulled the passenger side and went to put it back on that I caught it and re-removed the driver side and checked it.