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Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:08 pm

I have a 1971 Bus with sunroof (and 6 working drains) and love it, but put it in storage for a few years and now the right-hand cable is broken and both cables are pretty worn, so I need to replace them.
As suggested, I've ordered the Bentley book on Amazon and it should be here soon. My question is - to put new cables in (have ordered from EIS), I'll have to take the inner panel off. As I understand it, I just remove the clips in the front and I'll be able to then slide it all the way back and out of the way to gain access to the cables. Then I'll be able to replace the cables and snap the inner panel back in?
Don't have to take the sunroof out or anything like that?
I've gotten so much use out of this sunroof - open/closed multiple times daily for quite a few years - thousands of times - am so grateful for it.
Any tips would be appreciated as I'll be starting this project as soon as the manual & cables arrive in a couple of days... Thanks!

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:26 pm

I should make a sticky of this is gets asked so often.

Do not pry on either side of the inner panel. NADA NONE ZIP NO!

With the cable broken it may not open with the crank. If it does open an inch with the cable then go for that.

Either way remove the screw cap and screw in the middle of the crank

Remove the crank

Remove the plate above the crank. It is plastic and has two small pins that fit into the center of the phillips head screws

Remove the two screws holding the crank gear

Remove the crank gear.

Push the slider open about 2 to 4 inches or so

Pull the inner panel down in the front. There are like five clips that hold it to the outer panel above it.

Use needle nose pliers to squeeze the 5 clips GENTLY and remove them from the holes they are fitted into. They are usually rectangular and once you squeeze them on side of the clip then the other will come out.

push the inner panel all the way back.

Remove the screws holding the front runners to the rails. Do not change the center screw as it sets height at the front. You can use a sharpie to mark the side to side adjustment of the where the screws fit the runners.

Unlatch the rear springs and swing them out of the way.

Push up on the outer panel and it will come out. Have a blanket or something around to lay it on to keep from damaging the bus roof or have someone to pass it down to.

there are different size screws (stick them on tape or something to keep track of which came from where) that hold the plastic on. Remove the plastic. EIS has replacements for all but the center one.

Once the plastic is off you remove the screws holding the side rails on - do one side at a time and replace the cable as that will make it somewhat easier. Be sure to clean and grease everything.

Go in reverse order to reinstall. Before you put the gear back in, pull the slider forward to about 3/4 closed then push it back about 3 or 4 inches. This will equalize the cables. Equalize them again ANYTIME the door feels like it is opening or closing hard. As the cables stretch in they can be a tad different which causes the roof to cock and drag on one side. By pushing back with the gear out you equalize the cables, then put the gear back in.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:35 pm

Terrific - thanks for this helpful info -- it'll be clearer when I actually get the inner panel out I'm sure.
The turn handle is interesting - the gear mechanism on mine goes about 30 rotations in either direction, then stops. Is how they all are? It's crucial to have it turned the right number of turns depending on where the sunroof is when reconnecting the gear drive, it seems. Any trick on that?
What kind of grease do you use on the cables?

Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:58 pm

Karunaveg wrote: Terrific - thanks for this helpful info -- it'll be clearer when I actually get the inner panel out I'm sure.
The turn handle is interesting - the gear mechanism on mine goes about 30 rotations in either direction, then stops. Is how they all are? It's crucial to have it turned the right number of turns depending on where the sunroof is when reconnecting the gear drive, it seems. Any trick on that?
What kind of grease do you use on the cables?

each cable is formed around a slider block when it is made. The slider block pins into the steel slider so it can pull or push the steel roof. Each cable sits in a set of rails and tubes all the way from the slider block at the back to up front past the gear then it heads back down towards the rear in a similar tube on the opposite side. They cross by one another at the gearbox. If the cables were not there the gear would spin infinitely. If it is going say 30 turns without moving the roof, the cables have broken off at the slider blocks. When you move the roof forward, the cables are pulled forward, thru the gear and down a tube on the opposite side.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:29 pm

Weird that this topic comes up. I was all over my 1977 sunroof last night, and discovered just how lucky I am...it all seems to work, just gummed up. The cables are fine, and all the plastic pieces are in good condition. :D :D

The rust is not nearly as bad as I feared, but some areas will be a challenge to properly address. :?

SGKent's thread on this was reviewed by me a few times last night:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=548239 8)

I would only add one thing at this point: When removing Part No. 16, Left and Right Lifters, please be aware that in order to remove these as directed, you will need to remove both the M8 nut, spring washer and flat washer as well as a small set screw that helps position the lifter assembly on the sliding part. These parts do not seem to be discussed, and may not be obvious if yours is fouled with grease and crap like mine were.

I did not see the small set screw due to build up of dust/grease and insect carcasses. Then, when you remove these fasteners, you will need to grasp that part they came off of, and pull towards you, then rotate down. It's spring loaded. Refer to Bentley, pg. 1-42, Section 8, Step 6, then re-read what I just wrote.

Here are a couple of pictures of what I am trying to explain, after I wiped off most of the crap. The set screw on my right side was stripped out; you can see it after I pulled it out a little ways:

Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:36 pm

FWIW not all lifter / slider blocks that I have seen have that small screw that holds the block setting. Some just rely on the nut.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:40 pm

SGKent wrote: Karunaveg wrote: Terrific - thanks for this helpful info -- it'll be clearer when I actually get the inner panel out I'm sure.
The turn handle is interesting - the gear mechanism on mine goes about 30 rotations in either direction, then stops. Is how they all are? It's crucial to have it turned the right number of turns depending on where the sunroof is when reconnecting the gear drive, it seems. Any trick on that?
What kind of grease do you use on the cables?

each cable is formed around a slider block when it is made. The slider block pins into the steel slider so it can pull or push the steel roof. Each cable sits in a set of rails and tubes all the way from the slider block at the back to up front past the gear then it heads back down towards the rear in a similar tube on the opposite side. They cross by one another at the gearbox. If the cables were not there the gear would spin infinitely. If it is going say 30 turns without moving the roof, the cables have broken off at the slider blocks. When you move the roof forward, the cables are pulled forward, thru the gear and down a tube on the opposite side.

Thanks -- what I'm saying though is that if I completely move the cables out of the way, my gear does not spin infinitely! It acts like it, because 30 complete revolutions is quite a few, but after 30 complete revolutions, either way, it stops and there's no way to turn it. It doesn't just spin infinitely. It's always been like this. I figured as an OEM part, that was because it takes 30 complete turns to make it go all the way back/forward. Interesting that you haven't heard of this; maybe I should just buy a replacement even though it works fine otherwise - it definitely complicates matters...

Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:24 pm

Karunaveg wrote: SGKent wrote: Karunaveg wrote: Terrific - thanks for this helpful info -- it'll be clearer when I actually get the inner panel out I'm sure.
The turn handle is interesting - the gear mechanism on mine goes about 30 rotations in either direction, then stops. Is how they all are? It's crucial to have it turned the right number of turns depending on where the sunroof is when reconnecting the gear drive, it seems. Any trick on that?
What kind of grease do you use on the cables?

each cable is formed around a slider block when it is made. The slider block pins into the steel slider so it can pull or push the steel roof. Each cable sits in a set of rails and tubes all the way from the slider block at the back to up front past the gear then it heads back down towards the rear in a similar tube on the opposite side. They cross by one another at the gearbox. If the cables were not there the gear would spin infinitely. If it is going say 30 turns without moving the roof, the cables have broken off at the slider blocks. When you move the roof forward, the cables are pulled forward, thru the gear and down a tube on the opposite side.

Thanks -- what I'm saying though is that if I completely move the cables out of the way, my gear does not spin infinitely! It acts like it, because 30 complete revolutions is quite a few, but after 30 complete revolutions, either way, it stops and there's no way to turn it. It doesn't just spin infinitely. It's always been like this. I figured as an OEM part, that was because it takes 30 complete turns to make it go all the way back/forward. Interesting that you haven't heard of this; maybe I should just buy a replacement even though it works fine otherwise - it definitely complicates matters...

I have no idea how many turns it takes to open the roof as I have never counted the number of turns. You clearly should be a math major.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:47 pm

If I understand correctly, you are turning the handcrank mechanism free of the cables, and it still stops at exactly 30 turns. :?

I would think the mechanism by itself; independent of the cables, would be free from restrictions. It should be a cog/gear that is free to spin infinitely, like a bicycle crank without the chain attached.

Clearly, I seem to be missing something in your explanation, or the mechanism is more complicated than I assume.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:52 pm

Wasted youth/adulthood wrote: If I understand correctly, you are turning the handcrank mechanism free of the cables, and it still stops at exactly 30 turns. :?

I would think the mechanism by itself; independent of the cables, would be free from restrictions. It should be a cog/gear that is free to spin infinitely, like a bicycle crank without the chain attached.

Clearly, I seem to be missing something in your explanation, or the mechanism is more complicated than I assume.

you have it correct. Disconnected it will spin infinitely. He says it works normal so maybe 30 turns is how much it is to open the roof all the way. I know it is a lot of turns. each turn would be about 5/8" to 3/4 " approximately.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:01 pm

I guess I got a little confused by this:

Thanks -- what I'm saying though is that if I completely move the cables out of the way, my gear does not spin infinitely!

I assumed he meant by disengaging the cables from the cog, the cog would still stop at 30 turns...for some reason.

:?: :?:

Anyway, 30 turns seems about right.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:38 pm

Wasted youth/adulthood wrote: I guess I got a little confused by this:

Thanks -- what I'm saying though is that if I completely move the cables out of the way, my gear does not spin infinitely!

I assumed he meant by disengaging the cables from the cog, the cog would still stop at 30 turns...for some reason.

:?: :?:

Anyway, 30 turns seems about right.

maybe his fingers get in the way or his arm gets tired :) The gear does not have anything in it that limits its travel. It is just a round shaft that has teeth on one side for the handle and teeth to fit the cable gear on the other.

Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:44 pm

Exactly! Like the bicycle without a chain.

Nice punch card, by the way! 8)

Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:02 pm

Thanks guys - I'm going to buy a new one that is "like a bicycle without a chain" because the one I have definitely is more sophisticated than that - it goes 30 turns in each direction and then STOPS - yesterday I broke the plastic handle off trying to push it past where it doesn't want to go. I believe you that yours are like that and I am sure the replacement one I buy will be like that, too, and that'll be helpful.
Thanks so much for all this help; changing out the cables is the real challenge in this...

Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:10 pm

For what it's worth, the picture SGKent posted is just like my 1977 model.

Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:58 am

Can the sunroof be used and work properly without the inner panel being there?

Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:09 am

type2much wrote: Can the sunroof be used and work properly without the inner panel being there?

yes

Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:15 pm

it goes 30 turns in each direction and then STOPS

You are not crazy. I owned a 1971 sunroof bus for 26 years and can confirm that mine did the exact same thing. I actually never counted the turns but 30 sounds about right.

Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:21 pm

When fully open how much of the sunroof should be showing? My sunroof does not go into the pocket all the way, stays out about 8 inches. I've seen pictures of other sunroofs that have gone further into the pocket.

Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

type2much wrote: When fully open how much of the sunroof should be showing? My sunroof does not go into the pocket all the way, stays out about 8 inches. I've seen pictures of other sunroofs that have gone further into the pocket.

it should open fully. The solution is probably to loosen up the two screws that hold the cog gear up into the cables. Then rotate the cog several turns cw as looking up. Push the cog back into place, tighten the two screws, and try to open it more. I think your cog gear assy is bottomed out.