TheSamba.com Forums
 
  View original topic: 65 Texas Restoration Page: 1, 2  Next
dbuche Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:40 pm

A year of thinking, wishing, and reading these forums convinced me I wasn't crazy to attempt my own daily driver project. After several months of searching, I found a second owner 65 Beetle in Texas that matched my must list. It has matching numbers, very little rust, and needs very little help to be a comfortable and reliable daily driver. But that isn't what I have planned.

I want a complete restore to an as-new condition in terms of wear and appearance. Totally stock suspension, interior, and paint. I'm not sure what they may be yet, but, in the Nordhoff tradition, I may plan modest changes that enhance the reliability of the car as long as it keeps a vintage look and feel.

Call it foolish or optimistic, I decided to drive the car home to NW Indiana, taking breaks to visit friends and family on the way. The car did fine, averaging about 60 mph and almost 39 mpg all the way. It did burn a quart of oil on the way, but that wasn't unexpected.

We got home yesterday afternoon and I visited Harbor Freight this morning for jack stands and other stuff I never used before. They will go just fine with the tools and books I've spent the last eight months scrounging and as you can guess, I'm green as grass on this stuff. But that is part of the appeal for me. Learning as I go, I'm not in any hurry, and resurrecting something I truly respect as both practical and beautiful, will give me a great deal of satisfaction. And when I'm done, I'll have a brand new 50 year old car that I can enjoy during my retirement.

I'll get under the car tomorrow to change the oil and adjust the clutch and to just pretend I know what I'm doing.

[/img]

grandpa pete Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:49 pm

Good luck with your project...think of it as a lesson in patience :D

read up on dual master cylinder conversion 8)

61SNRF Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:49 pm

First off, congrats on following your dream and finding just the right car for them! :D

That must have been some road trip! Hope you took pictures along the way to remember it by.
Texas cars tend to survive pretty well, and it looks like it has had some good love in it's past too. It's evident from the new window rubber and fender beading that when it was repainted they spent some extra money to have the car taken apart and semi-restored to a modest degree. No matter what is now popular with neglect and "patina" repainting a car to maintain the finish and corrosion resistance is a form of "regular maintenance" that not everyone follows :wink: :lol:

I'd say you were doing the right thing by getting under there (safely too worth mentioning) and getting familiar with it's layout and functions. Being aware and involved with the car is key to a long and happy relationship with an early Beetle :wink:

For a similar reason, I would also say it would be a good idea to drive it like it is for 6-12 months to learn it's behavior and how it all works before taking it apart and tearing it into the little, tiny pieces that will ultimately go into it's full restoration. That way you know what to look for as far as defects when you go to refurbish each sub-system and how extensive the needed repairs to them might be.

'65's are unique in there own way and somewhat transitional in that they have the earlier, simple chassis and engine parts with the refined body, window and ease of use features of the later models.

I would say getting a can of semi-gloss black and spraying the wheel centers so they are two-tone will make it look even 90% better than it does now, and would also serve well to give you some good hands on practice and get your feet wet as they say.

Best wishes and good luck :D

bigdog1962 Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:06 pm

Looking forward to some more pictures!

gt1953 Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:47 pm

Nice looking dependable car. You would be surprised how that paint will come back when messaged with proper compounds.
Make the car safe to drive first. Well it must be you drove quite a way home.

dbuche Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:10 pm

I spent several hours on the car Friday and again today. During the 1203 miles back from Texas I learned that the clutch was badly in need of adjustment, the car was noisy, rode pretty rough, and had a lot of play in the steering, though it did track straight.

Friday’s goals were and an oil change and a clutch adjustment. I remember changing the oil in my own 64 and 73 Beetles and wasn’t at all concerned until I couldn’t remember if the plate had a gasket. So, I changed the oil without cleaning the screen, though I did clean and refill the air cleaner. It was nice to see all that pretty, clean oil on the dipstick.

I needed Papa Muir for the clutch adjustment. He grossly understated the required contortion when he wrote that reaching the nut would “physically stretch you.” It took me as long to learn the least painful arm and hand position as it did to tighten that 14mm nut ¼ thread at a time! I kept at it though and was rewarded with a much more comfortable clutch.

Today I looked into the steering issue. I measured the free play in the steering wheel at 2 inches by watching the front tire while I turned the steering wheel. I checked for play in the front wheels by wiggling the wheel at 12 and 6 o’clock, pretty tight, and from 3 and 9 o’clock, somewhat loose.

I crawled under the front end and watched the steering and suspension components as I repeated the 3/9 o’clock wiggle. The play is coming from loose tie rod joints. Papa Muir wrote that cars with link and king pin assemblies could be adjusted easily and that the torsion arm link pins should be tightened every 6,000 miles but I didn’t attempt that because I couldn’t find a good description of that procedure.

Also, his description of the front end confused me. My next task was to grease the front end. Muir describes two front ends; 64 and earlier without ball joints and 65 and later with ball joints. Those without, he wrote, have six grease fittings per side. Those with ball joints have only two per side on the torsion bars.

My car has four fittings per side, one for each torsion bar and one for each of what I assumed were the link pin to king pin connections. Here is where I really started feeling green. Richardson’s specification guide notes that ball joints did not replace pins until Aug of 65, the start of the 66 model year. My car is 115603600, March of 1965. So, no ball joints, but where are the other grease fittings. I took a good picture but haven’t found one online for comparison.

I took other pictures that show the underside of the chassis, the engine, the trunk, and the heater channels. The only patch I found was on the rear potion of the right pan. I did find some rust on the bottom of the panel that the passenger rests their feet on, but none on the floor or heater channels.

It is easy to see why the car is noisy and why cold air blows in through the radio; there is no trunk liner and the only sound insulation is the original tar board. I found one defroster tube detached and didn’t find the other tube at all. The car is also missing the visors and grab bar and the windshield needs to be replaced.

So, lots of fun stuff to do.





gt1953 Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:52 am

While reading manuals, do obtain the Bently manual along with any other ones like Haynes and Chiltons. They all compliment each other and the bonus is to read them all then do the job.
Sounds like you are getting the mechanicals lined out. Do it right.

mascrappo Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:30 pm

gt1953 wrote: While reading manuals, do obtain the Bently manual along with any other ones like Haynes and Chiltons. They all compliment each other and the bonus is to read them all then do the job.
Sounds like you are getting the mechanicals lined out. Do it right.

Spot on gt1953, I collect VW repair manuals, Glenn's is also good for me. Funny, I thought I was the only crazy one that read all the different manuals before diving into a job! :)

HotRod06 Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:21 am

That is one good looking '65.

cory464 Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:19 pm

Good approach to the car it is way better to fix everything while it's together. Too many people tear them apart and never finishe them. We have an great club in Kokomo, city of firsts vw club and the circle city car club in Indianapolis. Both are filled with great guys who love to help out if you get stuck. Keep up the good work. Glad you are learning

dbuche Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:51 am

The semester ends in two weeks and I finally have adequate garage space, so it is nearly time to start. I want to completely dismantle the body and chassis, restoring/repainting as needed. I am planning on taking 1 year to complete the project, understanding that may be optimistic given my limited knowledge and tools. But, I am approaching the project as an enjoyable and educational journey to a satisfying end.

My goal is a car every bit as reliable as when it was new. I want to keep it as stock as possible while accepting upgrades that improve safety and durability. A dual master cylinder braking system, and rust/chip retardant underpaid, are examples but I am sure there are many more.

I am unsure of any proper sequence to the dismantle, but know that clear documentation with photos is a must. Before I start I need to lay in a fair supply of boxes and bags to avoid having an unorganized pile of parts. Creating some organized storage scheme will be important because I plan to finish the body components after the chassis has been restored.

Any and all advice from those with experience will be greatly appreciated and I think meeting with local folks, maybe in Kokomo and/or Indy, who have done this already might be the best way to start.

dbuche Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:50 am

IT BEGINS!!
May 31, 2014

I took Mr. Peabody, my Way Back Machine, off the road Saturday afternoon and quickly removed his most glaring flaw, a broken windshield. I have wanted to do that since driving him home from Amarillo, Texas last December. Six months of preparation are now paying off as, thanks to my generous brother, I have the use of a nice two car garage for dedicated to this project.

The windshield was quickly followed by the rear quarter windows, the seats and read seat rail, the battery, rear panels, and the headliner. I found I was missing anything small enough to drive out the pins holding the inside door handles or window cranks, so I stopped work on the interior and finished the day by removing the trunk lid. Not a bad first day’s effort.
After a morning of home work, I was back at it Sunday afternoon, June 1, and removed the rear window, the deck lid, the radio, both bumpers, and all four signal housings. The door panels and windows are next, but I forgot to bring my camera or that pin driver.

A great deal of my prep work for this project involved the reading of Samba members who were kind enough to post their work. As a result, I intend to take the time to fully document everything I do for several reasons. Most importantly, so I can keep track of the parts and how they work. My system isn’t perfect, but it works so far. I note each step and place all the removed parts, screws, nuts, etc., in zip locks with labels. The bags will go into boxes labeled with the date and general contents such as “interior”, or “lights”. The larger parts like the seats, windows, lids, and doors are stored off the floor and grouped together out of the way. Like everything else, my method will change as need and experience dictate, but so far so good.










dbuche Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:50 am

June 7, 2014

Good progress today. My goal for the day was to dismantle and remove the doors, then the fenders, only 6 items, but it took all day and I learned a lot. I watched Chris Vallone videos to learn what I could expect once the door panels came off, so I was only a little surprised by how tough it was to remove the window mechanisms. It was easier after I remembered to pull the vent post, but all went well eventually. I was happy to see how well everything had held up and don’t foresee having to replace any of the components. I do need to research how to recondition the winders though.




The rear fenders came off easily, probably because the PO had them off only a year or so ago to replace the bumper mounts. I found what I hope will be only minor rusting and not something worse.





The running boards were next to go, and go they will as they aren’t very well made. I suspect they, like the bumpers, are not premium grade. I broke my first bolt! I was foolish enough to think all the 10 mm screws would come out without a pre soak. All but one did and now I have a drill and tap job ahead of me. That should reinforce that rule about patience.

The headlights had to come off before I could remove the front fenders, they weren’t as simple as the tail lights, however. Taking the lights off was easy, but I couldn’t find a way to release the wire from the wiring block at the back of the headlamp, and the block was too big to pass through the access port. So, I took pictures of where each wire was connected to the bus and fed them through the port into the fender well. They will have to stay with the front fenders until I learn how others solved that problem.





I did pre soak all the fender bolts before I even started on the doors. But there was still one problem child. The capture nut nearest the door on the right front fender is hidden in the door post, so I only sprayed the bolt. NOT GOOD ENOUGH! It snapped and now I have to learn how to deal with an enlarged hole in the fender and another where the capture nut was. I’m guessing I’m not the first to have this problem and would love to hear how others resolved it.





Finally the doors, running boards and all four fenders are off and stored until their time comes. The next phase of this project will involve removing the gas tank and all else required to remove the body. Bug Me Videos is my only good source for those steps as of now and anyone advice will be appreciated.


fla2smoker Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:00 am

Great Progress!
One thing that I did with my parts was created a spreadsheet with each part that I took off and created a column with their condition (replace, refurbish, repaint, clean, ok, etc). I also have a column for their location i.e. "Interior Box 4". This way when I am working on a part of the project that will have me soaking and cleaning parts, I can see all of the parts that need to be cleaned. Once cleaned I can update their condition to "OK" or "repaint" or whatever. I have seen many people forget to paint a part when they open and mix the paint and I want to avoid that. It also helps me when I need to place an order with a vendor I can look at what I still need and see if it makes sense to purchase it at that time (Save on Shipping). After time you tend to forget all of those pieces and parts in those bags and boxes. This way they are simple to review and see. Plus if you get burned out on one aspect of the rebuild there are other things you can work on and be productive.... Good Luck!!

grandpa pete Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:46 pm

To fix your fender nut you have two options
Fancy fix...buy a nut with a small piece of metal attached from VW supplier
OR
Backyard mechanix....Get a wider VW head nut and weld it into the hole [same threads]....Use a head bolt to hold in place while welding

dbuche Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:40 am

All good, still happy, and a few concerns.

Finally, a little time of my own. After I read on Samba and numerous books, and watched on Chris Vallone and Bug Me videos, the next steps to removing the body didn’t seem too hard.

The gas tank came off easy enough, as did the brake light connections and the speedometer cable. I was a little concerned that the cable wouldn’t pull through, but after I removed the cotter pin from the hub the cable came out easily. So did the two bolts that connect the steering wheel coupling and the two 17mm chassis bolts under the gas tank.









I had sprayed all the chassis bolts a few hours before I removed the gas tank, and the PO told me he had the body off, so I wasn’t surprised when all the chassis bolts came out without arguing too much. There were four 13mm and two 17mm bolts in the rear interior, two 17mm inside the rear wheel wells, and eight or nine 13mm under the chassis on each side. Only the two 17mm bolts under the chassis behind the trunk were worrisome. The turned ok but each sounded a little grindy, like the captive nuts behind them weren’t too solid. I need to know how to fix that.





Wires connecting the starter, ignition, distributor, and oil pressure and heat channel connections were next, then the two flex connections to the heater channels, and I was ready. All of the videos I watched showed the whole car being jacked high enough to slide saw horses under the bumper mounts. This left the body high enough to roll the chassis out. But all of those videos were of chassis without engines; I wanted to my remove my body with the engine still in place. My brother had the idea of using car dollies to roll the chassis sideways rather than straight back. After removing the oil cleaner and shift lever, it worked like a charm.



With the body off I found two more things to fix. The worst is inside the right rear body panel foreword of the bumper mount. It is completely eaten away and I don’t really understand what I am looking at. The body panel itself is solid, but this interior panel is shot. What is that and how do I fix it?



I also found a hole rusted in front of the right rear wheel well where the right heater channel ends. There is a patch on the interior in this same spot, but no one fixed the exterior problem. That has to change.




That’s all the new concerns this session gave me. Now that I can get a good look at the pan I can see where it was patched previously. It doesn’t look too bad from the top, but they left the old cut pretty ragged on the bottom. Once I get the engine off and can flip the chassis I’ll decide whether or not to get new pans.




The steering and front suspension components don’t look bad, but I’ll replace them anyway once I get that far. I think I will drop the engine next. I know I can detach and lower it easily, but it will need wheels under it to keep it out of the way.





As always, any and all comments and suggestions are welcome. You guys are great at helping us lesser mortals and I am always ready to learn from my betters.

Digger89L Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:23 pm

I came across your restoration thread, and was hoping to use it as a bit of guide as I get into my 66 project ....mine needs much the same work as your '65.
However, you haven't posted for more than 18 months ....what's up??

sportin-wood Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:00 pm

Last Samba visit was in June of last year. Wonder if he kept at it? Looks like a good project.

dbuche Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:28 pm

Eighteen months? Wow, I must be having fun. Sorry to have neglected to post, but I didn't know anyone was interested. I keep a log, but don't have it with me, so I may miss some details in this attempt to catch up. The project became a continuous mix of things I felt comfortable doing myself and things I decided to hire out. After removing the body from the chassis I focused on restoring it first by removing everything including the old pans. After sand blasting, I painted with a two part ceramic from Eastwood. I welded new pans I purchased from Wolfsburg West and painted again. I had new king and link pins installed by a machine shop and then reassembled the front end with all new components from WW; tie rods, shocks, stabilizers, front bearings, steering box. My goal was to replace all the wear points from 50 years of use.

I removed, cleaned, and painted the transaxel after installing new boots and seals. Installed all new shocks, Blasted and painted hubs and backing plates and installed new brakes, break lines, wheel cylinders and master cylinder. I originally decided to stay with the stock break setup, but decided later to upgrade to disc brakes in the front and a dual master cylinder. Someone wiser than I am convinced me the disc brakes are a good idea if I'm going to be driving the car in modern traffic because without them I could not stop as quickly as the guy in front of me.

I stripped the engine of all the tin and restored everything I was going to keep. The shroud wasn't correct and was missing all of the movable parts that connect to the thermostat, which was also missing. I sourced a new correct and complete shroud from Awesome Powder Coating, then took all of the engine to Tom at BC Sports in Evergreen Park, IL. Tom and his partner Tom, yes its a Tom & Tom shop, have been VW guys for 30+ years which means I pay a reasonable amount for the kind of confidence level I want to have in my completed project.
My engine needed the heads reworked with new valves. Tom replaced the piston rings and suggested a new carb, coil, fuel pump, and distributor. The flywheel on the engine was incorrect, so I bought a new one of those as well. The tom's put the engine back together l;ast week and I listened to it run on his bench yesterday. It started and idled perfectly and sounded great with the new muffler and heater boxes I got from WW. He now has my chassis because I wanted him to check all my work and install the engine so I can check that whole part of the project done and ready for the body which is next.

The body is ready to be media blasted. I removed all of the wiring and everything from the dash and under the trunk lid. I disassembled, cleaned, and painted the wiper arm assembly. All of the lights and lamps were removed and are waiting for restoration as are all of the dash components. The doors, trunk and engine compartment lid and all of the glass was removed. All the glass was good except for the windshield which will have to be replaced. Because I want the car to be a comfortable & safe daily driver, I want to modernize the glass to reflect solar glare & gain, but I haven't investigated that yet.

I took pictures every step of the way, before, during, and after everything I've done and am in the process now of arranging them into before/after groups. I'll post them soon.

Rome Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:07 pm

Great to hear you've been working steadily on the car! We look forward to your "in progress" photos.



Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group