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  View original topic: Ring and Pinions
torchmonkey Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:11 pm

Disclaimer: I know squat about transmissions.
Now that that is out of the way, I put a lift on my Westy last year and in short order decided the stock wheels were too small. After finding some super cool 15" Audi wheels I then decided I would put stupid big tires on them (215/75/15 General Grabbers) I love them and for the most part drivability isn't too much of a concern, but on the highway, on long uphill grades, the van is sluggish at best.
I'd like to get some of that spunk back if you can call it that. Will a smaller ring and pinion do the trick? Are they available, and where?

AtlasShrugged Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:06 pm

I don't think there is a lower ratio R+P available. It would be less expensive to fit four new tires with a smaller diameter than change the R+P anyways.

Go to tirerack.com and look at the specs for tires and the revs per mile. Looks like your big tires do about 748 revs per mile.

The stock 185Rx14 VW tires do about 800 revs per mile.

I think the Hankooks 195R14 do about 790 revs per mile and that works out pretty well.

Use the tire revs per mile to get your gearing back in order.

Jon_slider Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:34 pm

AtlasShrugged wrote: I don't think there is a lower ratio R+P available. It would be less expensive to fit four new tires with a smaller diameter than change the R+P anyways.

I agree completely, changing ring and pinion is a major job, and there is not a shorter one you can use, requires removing the transaxle, $$$, shipping, and rebuilding $$$

Your tires are too big, 9% taller than stock, go down to a 205x65x15, 2% taller than stock, if you want to stay on 15" rims

Van Cafe has nice Nokian WRC Van tires in that size, and can answer all your questions.

or BFG 195x75x14 if you want the offroad look and stock gearing. Another option is the General Grabber 27x8.5x14, 5% taller than stock, but underrated for vanagon, even though I have used them without problems.

welcome to the discovery that lifting a van is a slippery slope, followed by bigger tires, power loss, and motor upgrade envy

go back to stock size tires, consider getting rid of the lift springs too.. they hurt your fuel mileage..

madspaniard Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:38 pm

Jon_slider wrote:

Your tires are too big, 9% taller than stock, go down to a 205x65x15, 2% taller than stock, if you want to stay on 15" rims

Van Cafe has nice Nokian WRC Van tires in that size, and can answer all your questions.


That is exactly what I did, left my 215s behind and went with 205x65x15 Nokian WRC and regained a notable amount of zoom zoom

torchmonkey Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:41 am

Thanks for the replies. Yes, I went totally overboard, they just look so good, but in reality they are so wrong. I've been considering an engine conversion since I bought the van, so, maybe now is the time. $$$$$$

crazyvwvanman Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:50 am

You can certainly get a lower r&p for a wbx tranny. That is the most elegant solution of you want larger tires. If your tranny is ready or almost ready for a rebuild then it doesn't have to add all that much to overall costs.

Mark

torchmonkey wrote: Thanks for the replies. Yes, I went totally overboard, they just look so good, but in reality they are so wrong. I've been considering an engine conversion since I bought the van, so, maybe now is the time. $$$$$$

torchmonkey Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:57 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: Really? Where? This is exciting! I have contacted AA Transaxle, but have yet to get a concrete answer. Fingers crossed.

danfromsyr Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:06 am

keep it in 3rd on hills on the highways.. better on the engine to zing along than to lug along.. later model vans had a color coded tach.. green (ish) to 4500rpms.. it's ok there..

you could fit a Diesel trans to it. would have to be an 83 diesel 5spd as the 82 diesel had the shifter in a different location than your van. it's possible but there'd be a little bit more work to adapt the shift linkage to work. parts are available. 83 diesel 5spds are uncommon to locate.. and the R&P may be a little too low.. albeit fun. would put your top speed about 70-72mph. but have better gearing options against a weak motor with big tires.

crazyvwvanman Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:35 am

AA Transaxle knows where to get the parts. If you switch from a 4.86 to a 5.43 that slightly more than reverses the change to 215/75/15. I have used that size tire on many of my vans and have the 5.43 in a couple of vans now too. You may find it cheaper to get a 5.50 which is pretty close to 5.43.

Mark

MarkWard Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:53 am

More HP and torque might also be an option.

1621 Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:02 am

I agree with all posters here, you've got a couple different ways to go here. Smaller tires, or new R&P, or new engine. Due to 28" tires, I went with a lower R&P through German Transaxle. The change from the stock 4.86 to a 5.83 made all the difference, and brought the final ratios back to nearly stock. While the cost is certainly much higher than a new set of tires, I was happier retaining my larger tires and achieving a near stock ratio.

*Edit- I should probably also note the transaxle has a higher 4th gear (0.77) and 3rd gear (1.18, IIRC). The overall effect makes third a little short, and fourth slightly tall.

crazyvwvanman Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:41 am

Approx road speed MPH in 4th at 3500 rpm (with stock .85 4th gear)

.....................185R14.........215/75/15......215/70/16

4.86(stock).........62................68...............68

5.43....................56................61...............61

5.50....................55................60...............60

5.83....................52................57...............57

torchmonkey Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:04 am

Looks like slightly over $2K to rebuild my currently useable transaxle and add a smaller R&P, possibly $500 less if my current R&P can be reused by the rebuilder. Should I save my cash for an engine conversion? Or will I still need the R&P even with more horsepower, I was thinking of going with Bostig at some point. My van is totally useable, just slow on long grades? :-k

Zeitgeist 13 Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:06 am

Is there a definitive list of available R&P ratios somewhere? In specific, was a 4.11 ratio ever an option in the 094 cases? I was playing around with a gear calculator last night, and it seems like a 4.11 R&P with stock 2WD five speed gear sets would be a nice combo for a high torque diesel application--094 398 046 K. Not sure of the series nomenclature for this trans.

1st: 4.11, 2nd: 2.33, 3rd: 1.47, 4th: 1.02, 5th: 0.81

Jon_slider Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:14 am

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: Is there a definitive list of available R&P ratios somewhere

Does this help?
http://www.vanagonparts.com/tranny_id.html#_5

AKWesty Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:19 am

torchmonkey wrote: Looks like slightly over $2K to rebuild my currently useable transaxle and add a smaller R&P, possibly $500 less if my current R&P can be reused by the rebuilder. Should I save my cash for an engine conversion? Or will I still need the R&P even with more horsepower, I was thinking of going with Bostig at some point. My van is totally useable, just slow on long grades? :-k

Here is some information for you to make your decision.

I finished up my GoWesty all terrain suspension this winter along with my EJ22 conversion. All completed I am running 1.5 inches of lift with 215/70-16's. The EJ22 has a crazy amount of power compared to the stock 1.9 that I had. I have put about 500 miles on it here so far and average 19-21 mpg. We have some steep mountain grades here and there is no lack of power.

If you like your suspension and tires, and you want to make forward progress on your van, you may want to think about the EJ conversion. There are choices on conversion packages and finding a donor car is pretty easy. To keep it affordable I did all the work myself.

Not saying this is your only option....just the route I took. I have the lift and tires I want now with power and fuel economy. Not to mention greasy fingernails and cut knuckles. Glad its done. Heading up White Pass out of Skagway, AK to Whitehorse, Yukon Territory this weekend. The real test of the EJ. White Pass is a serious pull. Pics to come.

Zeitgeist 13 Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:23 am

Jon_slider wrote: Zeitgeist 13 wrote: Is there a definitive list of available R&P ratios somewhere

Does this help?
http://www.vanagonparts.com/tranny_id.html#_5

YES! Thank you, sir



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