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Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:39 am

So in the last couple of weeks I've done a good bit of maintenance work to Jean Claude Damn Van. (91 Westy). Even had him and my dog on the cover of Outsideonline.com.

Among the work last week.
Brakes.
Cap/Rotor (plugs and wires new/good already)
New O2 Sensor.
Tightened/fixed a couple of small exhaust leaks at pipe connection points, and replaced a few exhaust gaskets.

Also decided to check/clean connections on ground strap at the O2 sensor - the one that connects from the block to the firewall on the drivers side. I noticed that the strap was pretty frail and a bit frayed. But cleaned the contact points and probably foolishly reinstalled and she ran great - til a few days ago.
Now, when I start her up, the alternator light comes on and the idle is very rough to near stall. Til I give it some gas. Then the light goes off and the van runs pretty well - and continues to run well.
My assumption is that the ground strap is bad, when I start the van cold, the alt is putting out just a tad less juice and the strap is not conducting very well - hence the alt light. Then give it gas, the voltage from the alt goes up, the van warms a bit, and after 20 seconds, things smooth up and off I go.
Replace ground strap first?
THX

Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:55 am

As per grounding in general....
adding a grounding strap from the lower starter stud at the bellhousing to the chassis and one or two from the chassis directly to the engine block really helps things.

Using a black coated battery cables found at most FLAPS cost about $7 each.
They will have assorted sizes.
Those stock braided ones fall apart very quickly.

Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:38 pm

And while you're at it, replace the trans to body ground too.

Those braided lines get corroded inside, in the process of moving it a little you may have disturbed and eliminated some of its usual paths of transmission.

Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:00 pm

Yes to the ground strap, also inspect the wire terminals that connect to the power stud on the back of your alternator for signs of corrosion and/or fatigue.

Good luck.

Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:07 pm

I'm with dylan on this one,
Add a ground from the starter to the body. Why this doesn't exist from the factory on this or any other car alludes me, but apparently having a long grounding path through multiple different materials is acceptable by every manufacturer for the highest amp drawing item on the vehicle.

SERIOUSLY!?!?

It's wiring 101, a good ground to your highest amp drawing item just makes sense. It will solve many issues.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:37 am

Just bought this braided cable two days ago. Same width and length-16 inches. Part # 711699 Price: $10.26 cdn.

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/n7ltmqj][/URL

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:44 am

Yup, the one pictured above is what I no longer use.

The ones with a plastic covering last much, much longer.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:58 am

Can you find the flat cables with plastic coating. I was reading that the surface area was important for the grounding effects needed here. That plus the withstanding the constant flexing, I thought, would be the main advantage.

At least with the non-plastic coating degradation would be visible.

As far as longevity, when I purchased the van in '06 the cable had integrity, now in '14 it had met its maker. That makes it 27 years old. I will ask my wife but $10 usage in 27 years may get the stamp of approval.

If I make it 27 more years I will be a happy (though dead) man. :P

Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:22 am

Surface area is a moot point if you add a few more ground straps to key locations as described here and in other threads.

I am using high quality Marine grade wire and crimping the ends I choose with a hydraulic crimper.

The closest available for around $10 to what I am making is a pre-made negative battery cable found at FLAPs.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:39 am

Thanks Insyncro.

Just to fully understand this alternative of using the negative battery cable from Napa instead. Do you use the pre-made ones with the lugs attached, and if so how effectively does it ground to the left case position and to the contact area under the relay box?

Alternatively, do you flatten the cable ends and use flat terminals that will fit conventionally.

Not being argumentative, I had considered going away from the flat braided ones when all I could find were 13 inches in length, it's just that I couldn't envision how the alternative would work in said location.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:01 am

They make ones with loops on each end, no mod necessary, bolt in and go.

Many stores have them, Blowes, Depot, FLAPs....

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:05 am

The braided cable is used for several reasons. Flexibility first off, much better ground flow secondly. The braided ground strap is more costly to manufacture, and wasn't chosen for no reason. Have you ever felt how inflexible the larger straight strand cable is? :roll:
This is the same reason higher quality speaker and audio power cable contains the higher strand count, better flow. No need for band aiding with extra ground cables.

Thank you fixedgear for the link, I just bought one on Ebay for 5.99!

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:08 am

The green wires are grounds I made.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:15 am

I seal the ends of my cables with Wurth shrink tubing that when applied with a heat gun will completely liquefy on the inner part of the tube, but not on the out.
Making an air and water tight seal.

The lugs I use are closed end as well, no exposed wires at all once sealed up.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:19 am

kalispell365 wrote: The braided cable is used for several reasons. Flexibility first off, much better ground flow secondly. The braided ground strap is more costly to manufacture, and wasn't chosen for no reason. Have you ever felt how inflexible the larger straight strand cable is? :roll:
This is the same reason higher quality speaker and audio power cable contains the higher strand count, better flow. No need for band aiding with extra ground cables.

Thank you fixedgear for the link, I just bought one on Ebay for 5.99!

I suppose you stick with the VW grounding points too.
FYI two of them are too composite parts and not even metal :roll:

Rock on with whatever ground strap(s) you resonate with.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:22 am

Im not sure which locations we are talking about, the location I am discussing is the drivers side threaded boss on my Subaru cylinder head to the threaded insert on the driver side of the van firewall.
I haven't made any mention of any other location.

I was simply explaining why VW (as well as other car mfg.) uses the more expensive braided ground straps in the engine electric management. Usually when a more expensive item like this is utilized, it is for a reason. Regular vinyl coated straight strand wire is simply inferior, no question. Not my opinion but simply fact.

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:26 am

Whoa, you have a Subaru engine in a Volkswagen Vanagon?
Man, I really need to get with the times :lol:

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:27 am

Im not sure where that came from,or what your malfunction is...

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:40 am

Insyncro, When you and others have mentioned negative battery cables, I have envisioned those big thick round cables rather than the 10 or 12 guage round wires with the ring terminals. I see how you did it.

One thing though, might there not be a virtue to the large thin flat braided cable ends meeting the two contact points rather than the smaller contact points shown in your application with the ring terminals?

Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:49 am

I don't know.
I have had great success using similar to what I showed a photo of on numerous vans for years.

I use even higher grade parts than pictured now.

Again, no issues with multiple straps or coated wires.