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  View original topic: Coolant system problem with 1988 Vanagon GL automatic
Aces88 Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:27 pm

Im not feeling too good about my beloved Vanagon right now -

Vanagon starts fine, but can only be driven for a few miles or few minutes before the temperature gauge passes quickly above normal on way to top. When shut down, sound of boiling coolant in overflow container can be heard. The fan never comes on while this happens. Occasionally, If shut off and left to cool for 10-20mins, white smoke will be seen in exhaust output for 15-20 seconds at start. Occasional smells of coolant in the interior.

I am not a mechanic, but based on these symptoms, I wonder if hot exhaust gasses may be getting into the coolant system and causing this problem. Do these symptoms indicate a serious problem of a failing head gasket or possibly a cracked cylinder head to you, or just something that a mechanically non-inclined person with very limited tools could deal with?

Other information that may have bearing on this problem:

• Recently replaced water pump, hoses and belt at a reputable Vanagon specialist shop nearby in Berkeley.
• Same shop previously performed a compression test that indicated the following compression on the cylinders: 1)70 2)110 3)65 4)115.
also, 80-100ppm hydrocarbons were detected in coolant in HC test done at same time.
• The radiator has not been replaced during my ownership.
• The cap on the pressure tank (Left side engine bay facing forward) has not been replaced during my ownership.
• Prior to this, radiator fan would come on at appropriate times.
• No visible coolant leaks around thermostat.

Thank you. I appreciate your opinions on what may be causing this and more importantly what should be done to fix this problem.

davideric9 Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:06 pm

I'll answer because we are almost neighbors. I'd start by cracking the bleeder at the radiator to make sure you dont have air in the system. Check the two hoses at the bottom of the radiator to make sure both are hot. Sounds like a coolant flow problem. How long after the near Berkeley shop worked on this did these symptoms show up? Could also be a stuck thermostat.

However, your compression numbers are not good. Cooling my not be your biggest problem. contact me if you need some help, I'm in Oakland.

atomatom Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:27 pm

coolant smells in interior are probably leaking heater cores (either front or rear) or the control junctions around them. that happens with age, but i suspect extra pressure in the system can make them leak earlier (mine did - they are now bypassed until i get around to replacing them)

those compression numbers aren't great, but there seems to be a lot of speculation on compression number readings.

one simple check you can do is squeeze the fat coolant pipes near the engine after you shut the engine off. are they firm or squishy? if they are firm, the system is holding pressure (firm is 10-14 psi, like an under inflated bike tire). if they are squishy, you may need to replace the blue pressure cap as it may not be holding pressure - which could then cause the coolant to boil if your temperatures get close to 212oF.

does the radiator get hot? it sounds like it - the radiator fan still comes on? that rules out a bad thermostat in the engine.

do you have the boiling coolant when the engine is running as well? a compression leak can cause a volcano like bubbling in the pressurized coolant tank. the overflow is the one behind the licence plate - i had that one backing up coolant.

70coupyel Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:44 pm

"hydrocarbons were detected in coolant"
Means head gasket leaking.
Most of the time white smoke coming out of the tail pipe means water getting into the combustion chamber. Means head gaskets are leaking.
Your heads need to get pulled off and see whats going on. Top end rebuild or new heads. This could make your low compression #'s better.
Time to take it to a shop.

Aces88 Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:28 am

Wow, the opinions here range from the problem being as simple as replacing the blue cap on the pressure tank, all the way up to a top-end rebuild.

So, replace the blue cap? Sure, I could do that. Build a libby-bong and bleed the system? Probably beyond my expertise. Do a top-end rebuild? Not. - for that I would have to take (tow) it to my nearest "Highly Qualified Vanagon Specialist Shop" :lol:. Said specialist shop's quote on a top-end rebuild is $1,466.49 for parts and $2,080.00 for labor, or over $3,500 after sales tax, etc.

However, the $3,500 figure is actually the LOWEST possible price at the HQVSS, as they will invariably call in the middle of the job and say: "We just discovered you also need to replace X, and its going to cost you up the YZ."

dobryan Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:35 am

I'd ask davideric9 to come over and offer him a beer while he looks at it with you.... :D

danfromsyr Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:47 am

you should have AAA no matter being a vanagon owner/driver.. if you get a new policy you need to wait 7 days till you can have it towed. it'll pay for itself on the 1st tow then the rest of the year is free.

my $.02 is the small green O-ring that seals the coolant to the cylinders has failed, possibly because of corrosion/pits in the cylinder head sealing surface it mates to. a piss poor design in my not so humble opinion.

sorry to say that's the price of admission for many vanagon owners..
these are far from new cars, and they had these same coolant issues when new (even under the original short term warranty period)

Volkswagen making DIY mechanics for 50+ years.

new/modern cars are cheaper than a classic vanagon to own/operate just not as cool fun or practical for sleeping in down by the river

this is why many, many Vanagon owners take a leap to a engine conversion. update the engine and operating system while gaining more power and easier to source and work on parts.

you have to ask yourself, are you into this for the long term? or is this just cool/hip transportation to you?


don't think that it's cheaper for those of us who DIY in our yard/driveway/garage/buddy's garage. there's countless hours of deferred time and $$ just to get to that point. or sacrifice on the part of a friend who has made the investments of time/space/tools. often I'd think I'd be happy to pay someone else and not have interruption of life and cleanliness. then have someone else to hold accountable when said DIY attempt fails in XXX days/weeks/months


best luck whichever solution you pursue, maybe find local vanagon owners and their recommendation for a shop/garage..
your advantage of having readily available vanagon repair shops but they have plenty of business and can be picky to charge what they like. working on vanagons is a pita and time consuming if they're doing it right.

atomatom Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:35 pm

you could also pick up an engine for $500 or so, another $500 or so to get it installed. you could also replace the fuel lines when they put in the new engine. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss?zoomToPosti...mp;excats=

it depends on what you want and want to throw into it.

i've just rebuilt my top and bottom end - because of the same symptoms as you. it has probably cost me around $1000 in parts, tools and some machine shop work. i've also been working on it, albeit infrequently for the past 5-6 months (i stopped for a few months when it was cold).

it has been part hobby, part suffering, part therapy. anyway, i hope it is back on the road before the summer.

Wildthings Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:23 pm

It is often poor economy to do partial rebuilds on an engine this old as more work is typically waiting right around the corner. Instead consider buying a quality Tencentlife rebuilt for $4000 plus paying an additional $1000 to get someone to change it out for you while doing other needed electrical, mechanical, and fuel system work.

nacradriver Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:33 pm

Aces88 wrote:

So, replace the blue cap? Sure, I could do that. Build a libby-bong and bleed the system? Probably beyond my expertise. Do a top-end rebuild? Not. - for that I would have to take (tow) it to my nearest "Highly Qualified Vanagon Specialist Shop" :lol:. Said specialist shop's quote on a top-end rebuild is $1,466.49 for parts and $2,080.00 for labor, or over $3,500 after sales tax, etc.




The parts price is in line to what I spent for new heads, rings, gaskets, seals, water pump, oil pump, hoses, bottom end bearings, and some other misc stuff. The labor seems a little high. That is like 25 hours time.

Aces88 Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:25 pm

danfromsyr wrote:
sorry to say that's the price of admission for many vanagon owners..
these are far from new cars, and they had these same coolant issues when new (even under the original short term warranty period)

Volkswagen making DIY mechanics for 50+ years.

you have to ask yourself, are you into this for the long term? or is this just cool/hip transportation to you?
.

I think Dan makes the point: If you are going to own a high-mileage, 25+ year old Vanagon you have to expect to be spending money and time on it.
-A LOT of both.
I've owned this van for over 15 years and put close to 100,000 miles on it myself. I am strongly thinking of selling this van, and when I do again own another Vanagon, I think that with hindsight and years following the Vanagon forum here I will go with a Subaru transplant.
Its definitely been a long run of having seriously cool/hip transpo, though!

SCM Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:43 pm

Aces88 wrote: [I've owned this van for over 15 years and put close to 100,000 miles on it myself. I am strongly thinking of selling this van, and when I do again own another Vanagon

Why sell the van you already own and know so well only to turn around and buy another van that you know nothing about, unless of course you're "upgrading" from a 2WD tintop to a Westy or a Syncro?

Aces88 Wed May 07, 2014 3:39 pm

Hey everybody.
I've decided its time to sell this Vanagon and not pursue the repair further. If you or anyone you know is interested in a tintop Wolfsburg Edition needing some work, please direct them to my post in the classifieds.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1635752

Thanks everyone who offered sage advice on the topic!

fraggle00 Wed May 07, 2014 4:00 pm

Good luck. It's going to be head gaskets at a minimum. Compression test is awful, it failed badly.



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