TheSamba.com :: View topic - Help! Failed VA Safety Inspection

Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:38 pm

My '64 Bug failed the VA safety inspection today because of vertical play in the right front tire. I took it home to check myself and it looks like movement in the area between the 2 link pins, most of it seems to be towards the top one.

I loosened the nut that holds the top link pin in place until I could turn the link pin clockwise/counterclockwise. In one direction, it seems to increase the camber of the spindle, in the other reduce it. So in and out. If I pulled the retaining bolt out it turns in either direction w/out doing anything.

I replaced the retaining bolt and turned the link pin until I thought it hit a snug spot then tightened the retaining nut/bolt as much as I could. Still have the vertical play.

I went through the same exercise w/the bottom retaining bolt, still have play after re-tightening.

Bad Link pin? Bad king pin? Both? Bad troubleshooting?

As always thanks in advance to the samba community for any advice you can give me! I'd like to get this resolved ASAP!

Víctor

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:07 pm

Easy fix…get antique tags and no safety inspection required in VA!

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:08 pm

Yeah, but I like it as a daily driver. Can't do that w/antique tags.

Also, I found this thread which looks like what I need to try again. Reading thru it, looks like the link pin shims may be bad...?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7166832#7166832

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:11 pm

Got it….I'll keep my eye out for you on the roads. I'm in Springfield ('65 Ruby Red).

Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Thanks...in the meantime, no technical replies from anyone, so...based on the other thread, I went through the procedure again that Ken, aka, VOLKSWAGNUT, put forth in the thread I mentioned above.

What I see now, w/the tire on, is that there's play in the king pin carrier in the "tunnels" where top and bottom control arms connect and link pins go thru. I guess that would be bad link pin bushings...? That being the case, I should remove the spindle and have both sets of bushings replaced...? New spindle perhaps...? Or bad adjusting washers?

Anyone..? Bueller...? This suspension stuff is really Greek to me.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:04 pm

Frye...

Link Pins = Horizontal Pins
King Pins = Vertical Pins

If the play is at the Link Pins (upper, lower, both) attempt to adjust first, if maxed out adjustment...... replace the Link Pin Bushings and shim correctly.

If the play is at the King Pins...(no adjustment).... replace the the King Pins and Bushings and have the Bushings reamed properly.

If play in both service both..

.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Either way, sounds like I need to remove the assembly. I've never done this link pin/king pin assessment before so I'm guessing some here, but I say it's the link pins.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:14 pm

If you dont have a service manual... thats step #1

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:17 pm

pull the whole assembly off together as I recall, then you can examine the torsion bearings at the same time, although you may want to crack loose most of the brake parts before the assembly comes off. then dissassemble on the bench.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:17 pm

The link "pin" is what you are adjusting by turning them. It has a spiral groove cut in it that allows the pinch bolt to pass through. As you turn the link "pin" CW/CCW, due to tight tolerances the pin is made move in and out by the spiral groove. Depending on which side you are working, you turn it so it pulls the link pin towards the center of the car, back off a tick and tighten pinch nut (see excellent Manual reference provided in your link).
Note: This adjustment only takes up in and out play of the LP shim stack.

If you have excessive up and down play, then they are likely just worn out. Link pin "bushings" as made from soft white metal and are subject to normal wear. That is why they are made as a press in replaceable part. No amount of adjusting will eliminate up and down play cause by this type wear. To put it simple they get egg shaped inside because the pin rides against the bottom half under the load of the car. You can see what the adjusting groove in the LP looks like here...
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111498051GR

Worn King Pin thrust washer/shims will also cause excessive up/down play, and there is no adjustments for that other than rebuild. The King Pin up/down "thrust washers" are made of fiber and are what wear out here. Those and the large steel washers come in this KP kit...
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111498021GR

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:19 pm

Oh, I have many manuals...3 different Elfrink editions, Bentley, Clymer, Chilton, Haines, several other British ACVW books...oh and Muir's book. Course, helps to know what I'm reading... Like you posted in that other thread, ACVW folks like pictures...I'm definitely a "visual learner..." :roll:

New batteries in my LED head lamp and off to work.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:26 pm

61SNRF - Thanks for that explanation and for the links. I added them to the WW cart. Let's see what else I need after taking it off the torsion arms, per bluebus86.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:34 pm

It is not very difficult to press the old link pin bushings out and new ones in. I have used a large shop vice, and a few different size sockets.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:46 pm

Yeah, I've read that elsewhere as well. Pressing new ones in is a different story, though, no?

Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:15 pm

Easy to put the new ones in, just have to take it slow to make sure they start straight, and make sure the grease holes are lined up. You just need a socket or old bushing to get them pushed in all the way.

Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:41 pm

You could just replace the entire assembly...

http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aft...ke-p-12958

Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:52 pm

Yeah, thanks for the link, txoval. I think replacing the whole assembly would be more my "skill" level. But I have dropped spindles and a 3/4" sway bar for dropped spindles, the ones in the link are stock height. I'd have to replace the sway bar and my shocks, maybe the tires too...would be nice if they had the lowered fully built assembly!

EDIT: They have them dropped too!:
http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aft...ke-p-12959

Esde, what about reaming the bushings? How did you do that? Do you have the correct tool?

Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:26 am

Lack of lube usually what wears them fast. No reamers for link pin bushings, when apart u will find area that bushing fits on bolt will also be worn, u have to replace both & this comes in a kit for both sides.King pin bushings have a correct size reamer that was easily bought from parts sources in past, and simple to do once new bushings r in top & botton of spindles, align lube holes in bushings when replaced. Your biggest problem if u do it may be getting king pin out,usually 1 will need heat applied & a good press.

Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:54 am

Thanks Morymob.

Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:13 am

I didn't pull the spindle off last night, got to be past 9 p.m. and I don't have a garage. So...I'm still hesitating on the best course of action.

Seems to me I have 3 choices (for now :) ).

1. Try just replacing the Link pins, $, medium effort, chance for error based on 1st-time doing it and being an incomplete diagnostic since I may find afterwards that the king pin is also be bad.
2. go for the full rebuilt spindles sold by SoCal - $$$ but less effort and less chance for error on my part.
3. Take it to a local shop that failed the inspection and let them try and adjust the link pins. $ Cost=1/2-hour labor charge. If they're bad, then decide on 1 or 2....

What do you guys think? Probably 3 since i'll be out only $50 and if they can adjust them where I couldn't i'm off easy. If they're bad, then I'll get an accurate diagnostic and can decide on 1 or 2. Thinking out loud here....

Thanks.