TheSamba.com :: View topic - Sandrail/Woods Buggy Suspension suggestions

Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:54 pm

Hello all

Well I bought my rail with the intentions of using it for on and off road fun, I have fulfilled the on-road part and thought I was going to be "ok" on the off road part.

My first real off road excursion was at a place called Majestic Trails near Bradford PA, my first impressions of the rail was DAMN this thing is awesome off road. Being able to roll with the rzr's and four wheeler's on there turf is quite awesome, although here comes some concerns.

Suspension Suspension Suspension.

The Stock suspension while it works great for on-road and some mild off road it is not good enough for what I want to do. Now I know I will prolly get the response from a few "its not a rzr and its not a four wheeler there for buy one of those and be done with it" I am in love with this lil vw powered crazyness so I will not replace it.

so the rail has a late 60's link pin front and a swing axle rear, powered by a 1600 single port.

What I want is a coil over conversion on all four corners, I want more travel and better control, I want to turn this into somewhat of a "rough terrain" racer something that can take abuse.

What CANNOT happen is make it much wider than stock

My budget for this is around 1500-2000.00
Please feel free to show pics of your sand rail suspensions to give me ideas

Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:14 pm

Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:04 am

Well, we're the same, relatively narrow rail but built for fast use over rough trails, because you wouldn't get a wide rail around some of the courses here in the forests - but I will say anyone that tells you to get an RZR would get a very big shock :lol:

Now, I can't help you on parts with your budget because costs over there are far different to here, but the first thing I would do is to get some X-bracing in the main and rear hoops on that cage, and although I can't see it, I suspect across the front end as well, both for strength/safety, and to stiffen the frame and make the suspension work better. Then I'd ditch the swing axle for IRS.

Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:31 pm

no one has any ideas ? I have been lurking and looking in the shocks cant really find any info. I know that 2000 is low budget but hey budgets are made to be broke !!! LOL do not tell my wife.

anyhow so far IRS is the only response.

anyone here use theres as a woods rail ?

Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:40 pm

Get on Kartek website and get some resi front fox shocks. You can get them under $500 for a set. Your link pin should have adjusters, play with the preload and get a soft valve shock.

For the rear, your limited on the swing axle as far as travel is concerned. You may be able to pick up an IRS rear end and some decent shocks (even just emulsion shocks for now) and keep under your 2k budget assuming you can do the fab work. Coilovers need to have the torsion bars eliminated front and rear for them to work. You would spend about 900 for the front and up to 1.5-3k for real good rear coilovers, with the torsion delete parts...

Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:45 pm

Plenty of suggestions*, just not many that'll probably drop in your budget, what's your fab skills like? We made most of our suspension/uprights, etc, to keep costs down. As for shocks/dampers, I've always been of the opinion never to scrimp on them if you're going to be doing some speed down a rough trail, ours is on Foxes front and rear, and they're really the bare minimum quality I would consider fitting.

*Our rail plays in the woods most of its life:

:lol:

Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:22 pm

Going to coil overs gets expensive, fast. If you stayed with torsion leafs up front and added 1x 2 1/2 arms and combo spindles with inexpensive shocks like Bilstein 5100s you will increase your travel and give you better control. The biggest improvement I made in handling was a suspension seat, it is not only comfortable, but locks you in place, making driving easier. Besides your seats will destroy your back in no time on rough off roads. As mentioned earlier, you need cross bracing to keep the chassis from flexing and for your safety. The above front components will run about $800+, seats 200 used. Tubing, guessing 300 plus fabrication. On the rear, have fun with what you have and go to irs later.
Btw, I have a similar set up and on the front added the HD torsion and an adjustable beam, mine is +6. Being the rail is so light in front, I think the HD torsion was over kill and I dont need the adjusters.
Hth
On edit, you might want to rethink going to a wider beam, it makes a huge deference.! Your new beam will want the 10 inch travel towers, which i forgot above, add 200 used, 300 new.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:37 am

I have a mig and torches, so I should be able to fabricate anything really. Phillip what you are doing is what I am looking to do.

Thank you guys for the help. I know what I want to do just do not see a clear path.

IRS is in the works atm, should be getting one this weekend. I wish powertrax made a locker for vw's

Wed Apr 30, 2014 8:08 am

To be honest, if you doing fast/rough trails stuff, you might find as we did that the VW 'box isn't worth sticking with unless you throw money at it anyway, so the lack of an LSD won't be an issue, although that obviously depends how much power you intend to run in the longer term.

For now, you should have enough traction to cope with a VW engine without it being much of an issue, so I'd concentrate on the chassis and suspension.
P.S. - And some skidpans :lol:

Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:41 pm

flashho wrote: Going to coil overs gets expensive, fast. If you stayed with torsion leafs up front and added 1x 2 1/2 arms and combo spindles with inexpensive shocks like Bilstein 5100s you will increase your travel and give you better control. The biggest improvement I made in handling was a suspension seat, it is not only comfortable, but locks you in place, making driving easier. Besides your seats will destroy your back in no time on rough off roads. As mentioned earlier, you need cross bracing to keep the chassis from flexing and for your safety. The above front components will run about $800+, seats 200 used. Tubing, guessing 300 plus fabrication. On the rear, have fun with what you have and go to irs later.
Btw, I have a similar set up and on the front added the HD torsion and an adjustable beam, mine is +6. Being the rail is so light in front, I think the HD torsion was over kill and I dont need the adjusters.
Hth
On edit, you might want to rethink going to a wider beam, it makes a huge deference.! Your new beam will want the 10 inch travel towers, which i forgot above, add 200 used, 300 new.

these suspension seats you speak of can you post a link to some ? i must say my back even at 30 was killing me the next day.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:51 pm

http://www.sacoperformance.com/products.php?cat=11

Beard, Twisted Stitch, race trim, Master Craft to name a few brands

That should get you started

Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:03 pm

ok so, I have some seats inbound. I went with race-trim back vinyl man the shipping sucked.

Is there anything I could do to the swing axle shock wise to make it last till winter ? I do not mind a couple weekends down, I just do not really want to loose any nice warm days in the garage when I could spend them in the hills of PA and NY.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:30 pm

From Saco?
Post some pics of the present set up on the rear.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:46 pm

Appletree auto, they are close so ill get them maybe before saturday.

I have no good pics of the rear suspension, ill get some soon.

Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:43 pm

Sorry to revive a "old" post, but on Saturday my sand rail and I tried to beat up a tree and we lost..... dramatically LOL What happened is a 30$ throttle cable stuck near wide open, and I did not realize it till it was nano seconds from disaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZjAqfBK1CM

Now I am in need of a new front beam, I would like to stay with torsion leaf and link pin style. I like this one for the added travel and stock width.

http://www.mooreparts.com/1086-AC401005/

should I stay with my stock VW arms ? suggestions on this stuff would be great. I will be putting a "soft" valve remote res shock on it.

Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:34 pm

Damn that was a hard impact your lucky you guy's didn't get hurt .where is the area your looks really nice and green lots of trees.

Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:22 pm

Awesome video, except for the last few seconds of course! That looks like it hurt a little bit! How was the impact through the pedals?

Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:39 am

Some front bumper bars in order too then? :D

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:13 am

That's at a place called majestic trails in Bradford pa. It could have been alot worse, thank god for the 4 point harnesses.

as far as pedal shock...on impact it threw my feet off the pedals lolol.

bumpers re in the thought process atm

Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:36 am

Cool video. I haven`t seen that much green in quite awhile. Only cactus here :)
Stock arms that are reinforced should be fine. You can buy gusset kits. I would add plates to the beam, before you install bushings. I like the delrin bushings. As mentioned, it is time for a bumper. If you want more travel, you will need longer arms. If the vid is typical of the road conditions, braced stock arms should be good. River beds with basket ball size rocks would require more travel.
Keep that gopro rolling, good stuff.