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  View original topic: Door Handle Help
gheezerghia Tue May 06, 2014 6:05 pm

I've been trying to figure out what is incorrect in regard to my door handles/latches. I'm restoring a 64, so I'm trying to get things right. I was told that the door latches that I have are incorrect for my car. They are "c" code latches and they said they should be "Bs"? When I installed the passengers door handle it wouldn't open the door? I'd really like to see some good pictures of what correct for my car. Thanks for the help!

glutamodo Wed May 07, 2014 11:29 am

Okay, you do not list a location as to where you are. Is this a USA specification Beetle, or something else? VW changed the door latches 3 months into the 1964 model year on USA-spec sedans but not on cars for other markets.

One easy way to tell what style of latch you have in there is to just look inside the door when you have the outside door handle removed. If it's just a plunger, then it's the early style handle. If it's got two short horizontal bars going across, then it's the later style.




Another thing to keep in mind is that the aftermarket handles for the later 64 style latch are junk for quality. Originals work a LOT better.

-Andy

kwalker Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:28 pm

I have an early '64 body/door but based on your pictures I have the later style lock mechanism. The outside handle works fine. The inside handle does a great job locking and unlocking the door but it will not open the door on either the driver's or the passenger's door.

I don't know how the latch works inside (I took the handle off and can see things moving around inside it when I work either the inside handle or mimick the workings of the handle I removed. To open the door it must push back something that is aligned when the lock is not set. for the inside handle to open the door is there something that translates the fore/aft motion into lateral motion (pushing the OUTSIDE door button moves the slotted piece towards the interior of the car)?

For the later '64 - '66 latches does the inside handle rod/throw need to work differently?

I STRONGLY suspect that the previous owner replaced both locks because
a) it is keyed differently from the ignition
b) the VIN indicates early '64 but the locks do not match.

Unfortunately when cleaning out my garage 2 years ago a neighbor was helping and I believe late in the day he threw my car's paperwork into the trash. I had every receipt for everything done to the car in its 89000 mile life before I had got it. :cry:

61SNRF Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:12 pm

kwalker wrote: I have an early '64 body/door but based on your pictures I have the later style lock mechanism. The outside handle works fine. The inside handle does a great job locking and unlocking the door but it will not open the door on either the driver's or the passenger's door.

I don't know how the latch works inside (I took the handle off and can see things moving around inside it when I work either the inside handle or mimick the workings of the handle I removed. To open the door it must push back something that is aligned when the lock is not set. for the inside handle to open the door is there something that translates the fore/aft motion into lateral motion (pushing the OUTSIDE door button moves the slotted piece towards the interior of the car)?

For the later '64 - '66 latches does the inside handle rod/throw need to work differently?

I STRONGLY suspect that the previous owner replaced both locks because
a) it is keyed differently from the ignition
b) the VIN indicates early '64 but the locks do not match.

Unfortunately when cleaning out my garage 2 years ago a neighbor was helping and I believe late in the day he threw my car's paperwork into the trash. I had every receipt for everything done to the car in its 89000 mile life before I had got it. :cry:

Lots of variables here, and too many missing details to narrow it down to one simple answer.

I only see one question in your post,
"For the later '64 - '66 latches does the inside handle rod/throw need to work differently?"
I know they work the same, that is by pushing or pulling the operating link on the both early and late latches to open or lock.
But, '56-'64 remote controls (what the handle attaches to) do have a different part number....
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111837021B

...note they don't list a late '64-'66, probably means they are different, but in too small a demand to warrant repop.

Whether early or late has the longer/shorter length of throw, can't tell you.
For a clue, try unbolting the remote control, then you can push/pull the actuating bar as far as needed to see if it operates the latch enough to open or lock. Could be a simple adjustment, or you need the later '64-'66 remote control.

Also, you say the outside handle works okay, but...
Which side?
And is it an early '60-'64 or late '64-'66 style handle?
As in the Driver's side releases the latch and you can lock it with the key?

Or do you mean the passenger's side without a lock cylinder having a plan button will?

AFA how do the latches work? Can't honestly say because they're riveted together and have never needed to take one apart, early or late.

It comes down to do you want, form or function, as in correct for an early '64, or to simply make what you have work to your satisfaction.
Posting some pic's of your handles and latches would help greatly in either case.

kwalker Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:51 am

Sorry that I left out details:
1. Both the driver's and passenger's side are the same. Both have keyed exterior handles where the button is rectangular and continues the lines of the handle.
2. Neither inside handle opens the door.
3. My first priority is to get the inside handles working. Someday I would like to be certain that I have the correct year exterior handles for the year. If I recall correctly, the '63 and earlier handles had a round button and only the driver's side was keyed. However if that is the case then I would also have to replace the lock/latch mechanism because it probably functions differently too.

My current handle part number is 111/113 837 205C 206BE

I tried to post a picture but have to figure out how to associate it with the post.

panicman Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:02 am

Your #3 is off...

Up to 1960, door handles were the icepick style, with no button. For model year 1960, those changed to the rectangular button, with driver side only keyed. The rectangular button lasted until the end of '66, when it became the round button. I think you can find oddball 1966 cars with the round button, but they were more commonly rectangular.

An additional detail; I don't know the year cutoff, but I know on my '60, I can't lock the driver side door from inside the car using the inner door handle.

61SNRF Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:37 pm

Here's your photo (opened the pic, copied the Forum Code link and pasted it to my reply)...


Appears to be a reproduction of a late '64 to early '66 US market, square button handle.

Like you said, your latches are late too, or these handles would not work at all.

To work together, the inner remotes should be the late version too, and since you can't buy re-pops probably the one thing the PO didn't change.
Did you try unbolting them from the door and push/pull the bar to see if the door locked/opened?

61SNRF Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:58 pm

panicman wrote: Your #3 is off...
The rectangular button lasted until the end of '66, when it became the round button. I think you can find oddball 1966 cars with the round button, but they were more commonly rectangular.


The change was made to round buttons ~May '66, so about four months production. That would make these handles more rare than the much spoke of '67 only :wink:

kwalker Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:12 pm

The mystery has been solved thanks to your inputs. I figured out a way to test the "wrong remote" theory without having to take things apart: I removed the bolts holding the remote, moved it forward, and then turned the handle. The latch moved just as it does with the outer button. So "all" I need to do is find a pair of late '64 "remote" assemblies and put them into the car - attach them to the latch. I would rather not cut the arms. Of course is possible that VW simply moved the location of the bolts.

kwalker Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:16 am

Found that my car SHOULD have 111837022B (up through early '64 passenger remote) but it has 111837022C. ('64 only) They look a little different. But then the locking mechanism is also for the later part of '64.
Also Bentley says to adjust play in the remote by sliding it forward until there is a slight resistance. I had to unbolt it to reach that point. It was 1/4" beyond where the slot for the bolt will allow me to adjust.

So I will have to grind the stop on the remote so that I can get an extra 1/4" of travel. It is almost straight up at full extension so I suspect 1/4" off the piece should do it. We shall see.

kwalker Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:05 pm

I ground down the stop on the passenger's remote mechanism so I got some extra throw. It was not enough. To get the latch to move via the inside handle I still had to move it forward about 1/2 inch to an inch.
One thing I did feel when I followed the rod connecting the remote to the latch was that the arm to which it connects to the latch mechanism has a hole about 1/2" closer to its pivot point.
The rod connects to a pin in the lower part of the arm (getting the most torque for the movement, but less travel than if it were to connect higher on that arm. It is back inside the door. I do not want to have to take out the glass to get to the latch and TRY to disconnect the remote arm. Must I go to that extreme to do anything to that remote?

Does anyone know if there is a length difference to the rod that connects between the remote and the door latch mechanism between early and later '64?

61SNRF Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:54 pm

I can't tell you if there are different pull rods, don't have one each early/late 64's to look at.

It's not easy to figure out VW's part numbering system either, but if there was a difference they would have a different part number suffix.
If you want to have a go, you can do some research using this old catalog...
http://oacdp.org/type1part.html

I do know this guy personally and he has a warehouse full of old Beetle parts for sale, he might know or have the two to compare. Give him a call and ask if he can help...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=dutchboyvw%40yahoo.com

kwalker Fri Nov 14, 2014 7:44 am

Had someone check through his collection of rods and they were all the same. So the throw of the remote mechanism must be different. I will buy one and see.



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