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Fri May 23, 2014 5:57 pm

Next week I'm going to assemble my Thing and get it on the road. Along the way, it's being lifted some and will be riding on a 29" tire with stock trans gearing. The end game for it is to run the gravel and unmaintained roads around my homestead, the couple hundred acres of farmground and woods at my disposal, and to cruise for ice cream.

Currently it has no engine. I have a pretty much brand spanking new 1641 with 110 cam and a set of heavily ported stock small valve dual port heads that I built for a beetle that ended up being sold with no engine. It's been run long enough to break in the cam, and blasted up and down the road a few times with a 34pict3 (had it on for pure simplicity to break in the cam). With a decent header, it is a pretty strong runner in a beetle, even with a crummy 34. I do have a new pair of 34 ict's to go on it when it makes it's way into a car finally. However, worried it's not going to have the low end ass to pull my big tires and climb hills, so I'm exploring other options.

Another issue is that for ground clearance, I want to run a EMPI thing exhaust ( I sell them, so that's what I am committed to use), which is not the best flowing system in the world. I know the 110 and big heads are going to want to move more air, and will be choked out.

If I do build an engine for it ( I have a pile of good cases ), the goal will be good torque, and I have a pile of SP heads, so something like a 1776 SP, with a CB cheater, or a w100, and dual 34's.

Opinions on which way to go?

Sat May 24, 2014 7:44 am

Change the gearing first to better ratios.

Sat May 24, 2014 8:08 am

oldschool5er wrote: Change the gearing first to better ratios.

probably a good idea/plan
your stock R&P should be 4.125

Sat May 24, 2014 11:41 am

A 1776 or 1904 SP will work great for that on the dirt.

Fourth gear will still be a bit too high tho.

Sat May 24, 2014 4:17 pm

I would change your R&P to 4.37. A stock thing came with 4.125 and with your larger rear tires i will be just what you wanted.

Sat May 24, 2014 7:03 pm

I was hoping to stay away from regearing, that may be a next winter project.

I'd considered 1904, but I dunno if it's worth it with the restrictive exhaust. I do plan on cleaning up the head ports a bit to squeeze every bit I can out of the SP

Sat May 24, 2014 7:14 pm

Things are geared lower then a Bug. They came with a 4.12 R&P and a .93 4th gear. Your 1641 with ICT's should be fine if you get a good exhaust.

Sun May 25, 2014 5:49 am

Hello
Over here the 181´s came with a lower ratio. The IRS equipped had 4,375 for the army and 4,125 for the public. So I suggest a tooth count or counting wheel revs in 4rth gear to determine final ratio.

Displacement is always good when lower end torque is needed. A built 1641 will do the job, a built 1776 will do the job better.

Many years ago I was approached by the local dragonplane flight club (Those kite like thingies) they used a couple of 181´s to pulls them in the air, but the stock engines were a bit tired and they needed more lower end torque, as they often pulled almost at idle. At first I thought, OK they just need a decently rebuilt engine that works well, so I built a stock dual port 1600 with 8-1 CR, better seat job, 1300 dual port intake and carburettor to get the air speed up at low rpms. The engine actually worked well for the purpose, but it was not until then that I actually saw and experienced exactly what they were doing when they pulled the kites up, and what kind of stress they put on the cars. The next engine was then built and became a 1776 dual port w. stock cam 8-1 CR and stock 1600 carburettion. This was a good solution to what they needed at the time. Later the kites became larger, and suddenly the 181´s had traction problems, the kites could actually pull the cars backwards when they climbed hard, if the grass was wet. So I recommneded that they switched to Toyota diesel 4WD cars instead.

In your cae I think you will come a long way with a built 1776. The Cheater cam is a good choice.

T

Sun May 25, 2014 7:14 am

FYI: here is my fresh build....I have a 73 thing with 4.125 R&P all stock gears
my rear tires: 235/75/15 28.8" diameter
front: 205/75/15 27.1" diameter....throws speedo off approx. 5mph slow

Crank….stock
P&C New AA 1600...match weighed
Rods stock match weighed/end-end
Cam 352S Norris
1.25 rockers w/ swivel adjusters with shortened stock alum pushrods
Empi 34 EPC dual carbs 55 idles, 150 main, 175 air correction F-6 tube
040 heads, stock size valves, 3 angle valve job by me
with single hd springs with Chromalloy keepers and hats
Mild P&P on heads….no step
09 dist alum Bosch set at 30°....may bump this up a little
(no flat spot….further more….I have ran a German 09, 010, 019s
Since the 70’s….never had one with a flat spot)
Stock flywheel not lightened, stock HD PP German
Exhaust: extractor with single glass pack(bug pack)
Being a 73, J tubes

Norris 352S cam...with 1.25 rockers lift .440
advertised duration 254, but with rockers...a little more
FYI: Engle 110 cam .430 lift with 1.1 and 280 duration

decent acceleration, with the sort of large rear tires with normal
driving......but this engine combo seems to love higher rpms
by the speedo, I can pull 50 in second, 70 in third(adjusted adding 5mph
for the speedo correction reading)(I really need to add a tach)
but really do not max it out all of the time...just when the occasion
arises :wink:

Mon May 26, 2014 10:24 am

Ohio_Style wrote: Next week I'm going to assemble my Thing and get it on the road. Along the way, it's being lifted some and will be riding on a 29" tire with stock trans gearing. The end game for it is to run the gravel and unmaintained roads around my homestead, the couple hundred acres of farmground and woods at my disposal, and to cruise for ice cream.

Currently it has no engine. I have a pretty much brand spanking new 1641 with 110 cam and a set of heavily ported stock small valve dual port heads that I built for a beetle that ended up being sold with no engine. It's been run long enough to break in the cam, and blasted up and down the road a few times with a 34pict3 (had it on for pure simplicity to break in the cam). With a decent header, it is a pretty strong runner in a beetle, even with a crummy 34. I do have a new pair of 34 ict's to go on it when it makes it's way into a car finally. However, worried it's not going to have the low end ass to pull my big tires and climb hills, so I'm exploring other options.

Another issue is that for ground clearance, I want to run a EMPI thing exhaust ( I sell them, so that's what I am committed to use), which is not the best flowing system in the world. I know the 110 and big heads are going to want to move more air, and will be choked out.

If I do build an engine for it ( I have a pile of good cases ), the goal will be good torque, and I have a pile of SP heads, so something like a 1776 SP, with a CB cheater, or a w100, and dual 34's.

Opinions on which way to go? I mentioned re-gearing to you because you said you were going to run 29" tall tires and wanted enough torque to pull your big tires and climb hills. I have no doubt your already built 1641 could do that with a 4:37 R&P, or close ratio 3rd and 4th, or combination there of, but doing it with stock thing final drive ratios and trying to get up a substantial dirt hill might be a challenge. If your just cruising the local roads. hills, and freeway then the stock final drive will be ok just not great acceleration. I know the area because I live close to you so if you can just deal with using the lower gear range's in the stock tranny for climbing hills and lack of acceleration you would be ok. Torque and gearing go hand in hand which is another reason I mentioned gearing. You already have a running engine and adding additional bolt up stuff to it is not going to give you much power and torque increase over what you already have. I currently have a re-geared Thing IRS that I raced on with an off road race 1600 stock carbed engine so I am aware of what the gearing can do to get up hills in a small displacement engine. I have multiple sets of spare used close ratio 3rd and 4th's plus 8 bolt 4:37 R&P's if you want to upgrade your thing tranny. I am close by so I could help you set one up if you have never done it before. As an example of gearing my play offroad car here with a 4:37 and close ratio 3rd and 4th can run on the freeway at 4000rpm at 90mph with 29" tires so you shouldn't worry about being to low of gearing because you wouldn't be doing 90 mph here in ohio on a regular basis lol.