TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rewire power windows to work with key off?

Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:22 pm

So I will be re-installing my electric front windows in a few days. They were inop when I got the van and I considered switching to manual. After a bit of research I opted to spend about the same money to have them rebuilt by 16CVs.

One thing I loved about my Syncro with manual windows was the ability to move the windows while we slept without switching on the ignition. So I plan to capture that advantage by rewiring the power to my windows so they will work all the time (simple) or by means of a switch I could throw (slightly more complex).

What do you folks think? The traditional reason power windows don't work with the engine off is so a young child or a dog can't accidentally roll windows down when the car is parked. But I won't worry about those, and would actually value the opposite - being able to move them with no key in the ignition. Maybe I'm in the hardware store and my wife is in the car and it's getting hot - so this would be convenient for a lot of reasons.

Is there a down side to this? I have the wires hanging out of the dash right now and think it's the right time to do it. The switch to power them is a nice thought, but adds complexity and then I have to fumble in the dark for the switch first, THEN roll a window up or down. I kinda think it would be OK just to power the windows all the time. What say ye?

DougM

Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:56 pm

I tapped the key-in-ignition relay to allow me to run the stereo off the aux batt with a key in the ignition, but without turning it to the run position. Allows me to never leave the radion on to drain aux batt, but to use it when parked without turning kew on.
Perhaps you could use the same relay to trigger a relay powering the windows?
Just a thought.

Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:12 pm

Hey Doug if you have the stock VW switches they are illuminated all the time, and will kill your battery.
I've been tossing the same issue around for my van.

My plan is to move my switches to the dash center, in my instrument pod.
like MBZs
I'll use after market toggle switches.. illuminate them from the dash light circuit with LEDs
Another attractive option is to power the passenger window only, and use a crank on the drivers side

Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:32 pm

In my Tristar I have mine wired through the Negative output of the ignition switch through a relay. It powers my radio ,GPS and windows . Since I am in my truck all day and rarely take the guys out of the ignition it works well. If I leave the key in the truck for a few days it will kill the battery. The nice thing about it is, if I take the key out and come back later and want to put the window up and don't even need the correct key just something to press in the contact and away we go .
One issue of wiring the windows Always on is that the switches have a light in them as well. That along with other always on LED's will tax your battery .
In my Multivan I built a module that is tied to the drivers door contact switch ,so you can take the key out and the Stereo or anything else wired to it goes out when you open the door. The wiring is a little more then simple wiring .
I prefer the 2 different styles I have because I use both vehicles differently .

Stacy

Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:17 am

The Syncro I just purchased came with the GoWesty power window relocation kit installed. Switches are on the console at the inner edge of the seats. Not sure if it was part of the mod, but they do function with the ignition off and the key out, but the radio does as well. This is an interesting thread, as I was just wondering about all that.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:48 am

I would guess that the window motors pull quite a bit of current, especially when putting the windows up. I have heard the motor struggle as the window is almost closed (without the engine running) on a several vans. This could be due at least in part to a marginal battery or an old, gummed up motor causing excessive drag, but it is something to consider.

If you are planning to run the window motors from the starting battery, it might be worth looking into using a low voltage cutoff relay so you can't kill the starting battery by rolling the windows up and down one too many times while camping.

If you plan to have a good sized auxiliary battery installed, use it to power the window circuit and you can side step the possible no-start problem.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:28 am

your windows will already work without the key. Just turn the headlight switch on, pull the high beam stalk back and hold it, you can now work your windows.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:14 am

xoo00oox wrote: your windows will already work without the key. Just turn the headlight switch on, pull the high beam stalk back and hold it, you can now work your windows.

Yup :wink:

Direct wiring will drain the battery, as already stated.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:21 am

PO of my Vanagon installed a small button under the dash. Hold that button with one hand and the window switch with the other and they operate without a key in the ignition.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:03 am

On one of my vans, if you pulled the passing headlight switch (hi beams), you could run the windows. Never looked into why, but is was convenient.
Bo

Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:14 am

I've seen more than a few people melt their signal switch from doing this. Not a good thing to do on a regular basis .

Thu Jun 19, 2014 7:18 am

The aftermarket switches have a separate wire for the led back lighting. I have my aftermarket electric windows wired hot all the time for the same reasons as you with no problems. Led's are wired into dash light circuit.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 8:06 am

16CV's wrote: I've seen more than a few people melt their signal switch from doing this. Not a good thing to do on a regular basis .

I agree with Stacy.

Yes, it is possible, but I only do so as a check of the system.
It seems to me that the late vans, 90 & 91s are the ones that do this because they have the last version of the headlamp switch and the last version of the bulkhead wiring.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:14 am

xoo00oox wrote: your windows will already work without the key. Just turn the headlight switch on, pull the high beam stalk back and hold it, you can now work your windows.

And anyone camping in the path of your high beams at night will really love you :lol:

I thought that was a cool trick when I first learned of it and while I don't use it often (for the reason I mention above), I appreciate the heads up about it possibly burning out my other switches.

The GW switch reolcation kit is designed to allow the windows to roll down without the key in the ignition.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:52 am

SCM wrote:

The GW switch reolcation kit is designed to allow the windows to roll down without the key in the ignition.

Does this have any negative effect on the battery?

Thu Jun 19, 2014 11:59 am

AMT wrote: SCM wrote:

The GW switch reolcation kit is designed to allow the windows to roll down without the key in the ignition.

Does this have any negative effect on the battery?

My GUESS is that their kit totally eliminates power to the OE switches and replaces them with non-lighted toggle switches. So, no battery drain except for when the window is being operated. Whether there is a considerable negative effect to the battery depends on how often you reposition your windows.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Quote: I've seen more than a few people melt their signal switch from doing this. Not a good thing to do on a regular basis .
Never had that problem, but good to know. Thanks
Mark

Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:13 pm

When I replaced the manual window regulators in my van with power regulators I put the switches in the center of the dash as per GW (but not using their kit) and wired them direct to the X30 unswitched current track so that they are always "on". Much more convenient, I don't see a downside.

I have also installed one touch up and down units on both so that one push of the switch completely opens or closes each window. I love it, when l leave the van I just push the switch and open the door, the windows close while I walk away.

I also wired the switches to the "trunk" output of my keyless entry system so that I can close both windows at the touch of a button from a distance if I need to (like when I forget to close them).

As shadetreetim says the aftermarket switches have separate LED backlight terminals so draining the battery should not be a problem - I did not do that but it would make the switches easier to see at night.

If I did this again I might consider putting the swches in the door rather than the dash. The wiring is a bit more complicated but it would be more convenient I think.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:23 pm

Ive been thinking of just adding a delay relay to power the windows for a minute shutting down.

Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:09 pm

The delay would require some wiring mods but doable. Just doesn't accomplish what I want - the ability to adjust the windows for ventilation at night with little drama. For me, the most used scenario is front seats full of luggage, asleep in the back and want to quickly crawl forward and adjust the window. I've had to do in my LandCruisers just what others describe - turning the key on, then adjust windows while stereo starts, DRLS activate, dash fan starts, various clicks and clunks from relays and antenna going up, etc. All while straining to reach around luggage, etc. Then turn the key off with a clunk - not the best with someone sleeping at close quarters.

I suspect its something that you'd benefit from most if you sleep in your van. It would also be great in a gathering if I am off somewhere and it starts to rain or something - anyone could close my windows for me.