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Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:21 pm

Hello everyone,

I'm restoring a 1966 21-Window Bus, complete with a 911 engine, 915 transmission, and a custom suspension from Franklin's VW Werks. The project has taken many years, but we're finally getting close to painting it. I want to paint it yellow and white, similar to the following bus:

The guy who's working on it recommended we do "single stage" paint because it's period correct and costs a lot less. He mentioned that two stage paint is more modern, but costs a lot more too.

What would you recommend if you were creating a dream bus?

Below are some recent pictures of the project.

Thanks,

Matt

Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:41 pm

My bus is single stage. If you want it super shiny go with clear. It is about half the cost, half the materials. I like the single stage for scratches, just buff them out. You only have to worry about going through the paint. I personally like the gloss of single stage especially on white.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:52 pm

mraible wrote: Hello everyone,

I'm restoring a 1966 21-Window Bus, complete with a 911 engine, 915 transmission, and a custom suspension from Franklin's VW Werks. The project has taken many years, but we're finally getting close to painting it. I want to paint it yellow and white, similar to the following bus:

The guy who's working on it recommended we do "single stage" paint because it's period correct and costs a lot less. He mentioned that two stage paint is more modern, but costs a lot more too.

What would you recommend if you were creating a dream bus?

Thanks,

Matt

I don't see where having period correct paint matters on a custom bus but maybe that's just me

single stage is great for daily drivers that will see more then just the big car shows
two stage is good for the "show car" that rarely sees much driving

btw that magazine bus has a two stage paint job so if that's what you are trying to re-crate then two-stage is your answer

Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:07 pm

I greatly prefer single stage, both in look and how it stands up to minor scratches. Seems like if a fly lands on 2-stage paint, it will leave skid marks.

The color just looks deeper, too. That's just personal preference and experience, though.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:10 pm

Apparently your dreams differ from mine but that's OK, it's your bus.
As already mentioned it's a custom so why stop now?, 2 stage is super shiny and needs little maintenance but it's easy to chip and harder to repair, single stage doesn't have that deep mirror shine but looks good if you maintain it, if it's the 80's/90's magazine feature car look you are after go for the 2 stage.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:32 pm

Single stage looks solid and 2 stage looks covered. Clear is used because single stage is illegal most places. The clear seals in the paint chemicals or something to do with ozone, I don't remember. The deepest colors I have seen have been single stage. I used to work at a bodyshop in high school. It was back when they were using both. I personally would paint any solid color single stage and metallic 2 stage. Not because it is period correct but I think it looks better. It is all your preference.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:43 pm

Single Stage please.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:27 pm

Single stage.

Here is my bus.... If I had it to do over I would NOT paint it Yellow. Yes it's a movie star and in few photo shoots, but I still would like it to be a 65 color.

I was swayed into yellow by that same bus plus Thom's Vintage Bus dot Com's yellow bus.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:49 pm

Single stage... definitely single stage. I just had my '59 Double-Cab done a year ago in singe stage Dove Blue, turned out very nice, and my painter said it was also much easier to fix or repair issues in the future. I'm sold! Check it out...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=545000&start=0

Bill

Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:57 pm

As stated earlier, single stage is more 'correct' for any old vehicle, but your bus is well past needing to have correct paint. It really comes down to what look you like. Single stage colors, to me, are creamier, if that makes sense

Two stage paint just looks too glossy, as tho it was dipped in shiny clear coat...which it pretty much is.

While either can be finished out perfectly, nothing beats a perfectly color sanded and buffed single stage paint job, IMO.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:03 pm

the cheaper way to get you the result you want, if you ask me.

good painters will make any method look good. i had a l41 black beetle painted with clear coat in the 80s, it was a spectacular looking paint job. If your painter of choice tells you he wants to paint your bus single stage, listen to the man

Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:16 pm

Single stage paint has a more classic tone as the pigment is mixed in with a binder, dispersing the color throughout the layers of color. By doing this, the side tone is way different when you view it at angle. Thats how you get the classic look most desire in the collector circle.

Sometimes face on, depending on the chemical structure of the the single stage paint, the gloss of it and a two stage paint is almost identical.

But this will also vary depending on the amount of clear applied as it enhances the depth. Think of layers of glass on a fish tank. Which changes the distinction of image.

Single stage has some benefits to upkeep. It tends to last longer. How many two stage paint jobs will last 50+ years out in the elements?

The clear is constantly expanding and contracting differently, while also magnifying the basecoat/colorcoat. Most often non-catalyzed as well.

Based on my experience. Most of the time a two stage paint job is easier to repair as it can be blended much easier. You can often "fake a color match" much, much better.

If I was going to drive it a lot and have to worry about repairs with a yellow like your looking at. I would only consider using a two stage paint sytem. A bright yellow is very susceptable to metamerism and influence by its undercoat.

Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:23 pm

Metamerism?... no wonder I don't like yellow ;-)

Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:16 am

Or is it meteorism?

Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:54 am

Whichever you choose make sure you order enough for future repairs especially with a custom color

Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:59 am

If you go 2 stage- get way more yellow than you thunk you'll need- very thin solids wise- will not cover for shit- and use a light grey or white primer underneath. I did a 69' Cuda in 97' Prowler yellow. Looked great in the booth- but outside was crap- had to wet sand whole car- more yellow- and clear again. Yellow is a pain- and expensive-

Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:12 am

There are tons of variables here.

First, quality. All is moot unless you're talking high quality paints i.e. Glasurit single stage etc. Don't bother with cheap granular paint. Then there's the flatting and finishing, removing orange peel etc....much harder to avoid sand-thrus with 2-stage base and clear, and if using a high amount of cellulose in the 2-stage (most modern celly has a lot of acrylic) then you always fighting the melt factor i.e. each new layer melts into the previous layer. Top quality paint guys use this to their advantage. Not-so-good guys get too much melt and weight into the paint, and curtain drips.

Personally I much prefer single stage for the reasons mentioned above, plus the fact VW used single-stage, and it looks right. Base and clear is fine, but hard to do well IMO, and just doesn't look right on splitscreens. Plus even with UV inhibitors the clear will almost always yellow/amber over time, and can look blotchy on white depending on the evenness of the coverage. Depends how picky you are. IMO paint/colour is half the beauty of splits.

Also, feathering later blends/repairs is much easier with single stage IMO, and the overall paint thickness can be kept down (if doing a colour blend I make sure I have the correct colour grey primer layers done first, so it doesn't shout out in the case of a rub-through or polish-through).

There's always 2-pac for durability, but I don't like the look of it, too plasticky (and needs an air-suit for the cynanide).

One last thing - don't skimp on the quality of the paint thinners. High quality brand-matched thinners make for a much nicer, higher quality job whatever the finish. The flow is much nicer and wetting out the spray line much easier. Sure a good painter can use anything within reason, but that's no reason to skimp.

Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:15 am

I would use single stage Nason Urethane, lays down good and with some wet sanding and polishing it has a deep wet look. Just my .02

Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:24 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe with PPG Concept single stage, you can use clear on the top coat. I am not sure if the clear gets mixed in with the paint, or if it's a straight up top coat. Someone with PPG experience, or a factory rep can verify this option.

Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:49 am

GLHTurbo wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe with PPG Concept single stage, you can use clear on the top coat. I am not sure if the clear gets mixed in with the paint, or if it's a straight up top coat. Someone with PPG experience, or a factory rep can verify this option.

I laid down Single Stage PPG Concept on my Beetle. It has a nice deep tone and has allowed me to touch up dings and bruises since it gets used as much as possible, and this past winter has lived outside. I did not put down any additional clear layers, just lots of wet sanding and buffing.
Definitely Single Stage. My buddy's bus is two-stage and it has not had the durability, plus it tends to need buffing more often, along with paint chips.

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