TheSamba.com :: View topic - Question about the front wheel bearing/spindle spacer

Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:41 pm

Okay, I'm packing the front wheel bearings and putting them in the front drums on my '59 DC. The inner bearings are in and greased, and I'm installing a pair of NOS "old style" wheel bearing grease seals, the original metal style grease seals with felt inner linings.

I noticed that the used spindle "spacer" fits VERY tightly inside the felt-lined inner bore, VERY tightly. The VW Workshop manual calls for the bearing grease seals with felt to be "cooked" in 176 degree 90 wt gear oil for 30 seconds, drained of excess oil, then installed. Okay, I didn't do that cooking procedure, but I moistened the felt with room temp 30 wt oil and carefully inserted these used spacers into the felt grease seals.

Question #1: Even with the "oiled" felt seal, the spacer fits VERY tight (both sides). Holding both items in my hands, I can't get the spacer to move or spin in the felt seal once inserted. It will certainly seal grease in once installed in the drum, but shouldn't it move/spin? It is very tight now. Perhaps it will move/spin once on the spindle, who knows. I don't think the spacer is supposed to spin on the spindle? I imagine that the spacer stays still on the spindle, and that as the drum spins, the seal should spin on the spacer. Correct? Anyone know?

Question #2: When the grease seal in carefully driven into the inner bearing bore, should it be driven down until it is flush with the inner lip of the drum, or should it go down further into that bore? I'm thinking "flush" (as seen the photo below). It can go down further in the bore, but it starts to bind against the inner bearing if you do. Can I get a confirmation ruling on this one?

In this photo, you can see the spacer already inside the felt-lined metal-cased grease seal driven flush into the drum bore. If you look closely you can see the felt between the two.

The fit was so tight that I was afraid that if I placed the spacer onto the spindle first, then slid the drum with bearing grease seal onto the spindle that I might deform or tear the felt and not know it while trying to slide it onto/over the spacer.

Worst case, I could always remove the felt-style seals and try the fit of the later conventional rubber coated seals. Thanks for any help/ suggestions.

Bill

Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:46 pm

Are you able to spin the spacer at all while installed into the felt seal?

I am not very used to this type, but I guess there will be a bit of compression/wear from the felt after some use or kms...

Thu Jul 10, 2014 6:41 am

When the spacer and felt grease seal were not installed into the drum and just held in my hands, with one hand holding the outer diameter of the NOS felt-lined grease seal and the other hand trying to move/spin the installed used spacer, I couldn't get it to spin. The felt is NOS and not crushed down yet, so it's obviously pretty grippy. I just expected some ease of movement. These are used, slightly worn (no burrs) spacers. If they were NOS, the fit into these NOS felt-lined seals would be even tighter!

Since I assume that the spacer probably shouldn't move/spin on the spindle shaft in operation, I'd feel better if there were movement between the spacer and grease seal. And there may be once installed on the spindle. I assume the spacer shouldn't move because there are descriptions/photos in the VW Workshop manual on how to use dealership tools to pry off a spacer from the spindle during the disassembly process.

I might keep the drum horizontal on the workbench as seen in my photo above and drip a little more 30 wt oil into the felt seal, let it soak in, and then try again to move/rotate the spacer in the seal. I suppose that once I see some movement, I'll feel better about installing the drum/bearings/seal/spacer assembly onto the spindle.

Thoughts/experiences/suggestions anyone?

Bill

Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:35 am

I've never used those seals, but the 'cooking' procedure is unusual and got me thinking about what purpose it served. Steam is used to shape felt, and hot water is used in the process of making fibers 'weave' together into felt. So, this might be a stretch, but I wonder if immersion in the heated oil loosens the weave of the felt just enough for it to take a different set around/against the sealing surface.

Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:53 am

not much help here, but I have run into the exact same problem. I just reused old used felt seals and I have never had a problem in 100,000+ miles. I think that used original felt seals would probably last longer than new production rubber ones.

Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:20 am

Thanks Lind and Z,

I'll try adding 30 wt, and if it doesn't loosen up (doubt it will) I'll carefully drive the NOS seals out and re-use the used ones. I drove them out carefully before and thankfully saved them, so they should go back on fine. The VW Workshop manual even talks about re-using them if not damaged. Lind (as usual) may be onto something. I'm glad you came on here and mentioned that you also experienced the same thing, as I thought I was going crazy there for a minute with the super tight interference!!! I'd prefer to use these NOS seals, but "used" in this case might be better!

Bill

Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:19 pm

a trick for removing a grease seal without damage is to put the drum onto the spindle without the outer bearing, install the spindle nut and then do a slide hammer type action with the drum where the nut catches the inner bearing and the inner bearing will pop the seal out without any damage.

Hope that made sense.

If VW says cook it in oil, I say do it. Obviously it serves some purpose. Not like it would be hard to do. Put some oil in a can and cook it up on your camp stove outside.

Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:41 pm

Glad to hear others are re-using their old felt seals; I have always re-used mine.

I believe The Bently says boil them in gear oil; I always boiled mine with a torch and an old coffee or soup can.

Let them drain well so the excess dosen't get on your new linings.

Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:02 pm

RPGreg2600 wrote: If VW says cook it in oil, I say do it.

The recipe reads more like a quick douse in thin hot gear oil mainly to get it to absorb due to thinness, I think.

I think your felt is just old and hard. I've had Model A Ford seals like that and soaked them in water, let them dry, then oiled them. pack some grease between the bearing and the seal at the outer race.

Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:24 pm

I've used NOS seals, and they were tight. I used axle grease and just assembled it. The wheel was hard to turn, but easier after the rim/tire was put on. Adjusted brakes, took a spin out around the block, and then readjusted the brakes. The wheels were much easier to turn at this point.

No problems after that.