TheSamba.com :: View topic - Starter id = Which clutch cover/bell housing you have T2

Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:01 pm

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First I would like to thank everyone that contributed data and pictures! Without your contributions, this post would not have been possible.

STARTER ID = WHICH CLUTCH COVER/BELL HOUSING YOU HAVE

1. To figure out which Starter you need. You first, need to figure out which Clutch Cover (bell housing) you have.

CLUTCH COVER ID
68-71 002 Clutch cover. (Note: No mounting ears and narrow engine mounting tabs)

72-75 002 Clutch cover. (Note: mounting ears and narrow engine mounting tabs)

76-79 091 Clutch cover. (Note: mounting ears and wide engine mounting tabs)

Note: 002 clutch cover mounting tabs are about 44mm (1 3/4"). Measure one of the bottom clutch cover mounting tabs. If it is about 1 3/4" (44mm) the clutch cover is a 002.
Note: 091 clutch cover mounting tabs are about 54mm (2 1/8"), 10mm wider than the 002

Note: the different widths of the starter mounts. This is why the starters
are different. The 091 starter mount is wider than the 002 mount.

CLUTCH COVER PART NUMBERS
002 Clutch Cover Prt #:
E69 002 301 071
L69-70 002 301 071A
71 002 301 071C
72 002 301 071E
Engine lower mounting studs are shorter, N 14 525 1 (M10 X 85mm)

091 Clutch Cover Prt #:
76-79 091 301 071E
Engine lower mounting studs are longer, N 014 675 2 (M10 X 97mm)

2. Now that you know which Clutch Cover you have. You need to know which starter you need.

CLUTCH COVER = STARTER
002 Clutch Covers 68-75 = SR15 or SR17 Starter
(Note: SR15 requires new starter bushing)
(Note: SR17 Auto starter can be used in all 002 bell housings. No starter bushing required)

091 Clutch Covers 76-79 = SR87 Starter
(Note: SR17 Auto starter, will not work with 76-79 091 bell housing)

All Automatic Clutch Covers 73-79 = SR17 Starter
(Note: SR17 will fit all 68-75 002 Bell Housings and does not require starter bushing)
(Note: SR17 Auto starter, will not work with 76-79 091 bell housing)

3. Now that you know which starter you need. You need to make sure you get the right one.

You know the drill. Starter is flopped down on the counter. You ask the question, "Are you sure this is the right one.""YA". Get it home, forget to unhook the battery and weld the wrench to the starter. Finally get it installed only to here it spin or just a clunk. Rip it out, take it back. Only to be handed a Auto starter."These fit everything right". Wrong, another hour on your back and another trip to the parts store. But on the third try you got this dodo down.
You have a 1 out of 3 chance of getting the right starter. I don't like those odds.

STARTER ID
311 911 023 D, Bosch SR15, SR15X=Rebuilt: 002 Standard Trans. Requires new starter bushing.(Note: Pinion Gear is shorter than the SR87 091 starter)
(Note: SR17 can be used on all 002 clutch covers and does not require new starter bushing)

091 911 023, Bosch SR87, SR87X=Rebuilt: 091 Standard Trans. Requires new starter bushing.(Note: Pinion Gear is longer than the SR15 002 starter)
(Note: SR17 Auto starter, will not work with 1976-79 091 bell housing)

003 911 023 B, Bosch SR17, SR17X=Rebuilt: All Automatic Trans. 73-79
(Note: will fit all 002 standard clutch covers 1968-75 and does not require starter bushing)
(Note: Auto starter will not work with 1976-79 091 clutch cover)

STARTER VW PART NUMBERS
Standard Trans
68-69 111911023A (VW)
311911023B (Bosch)

E70 311911023C (Bosch)
3.70-75 311911023D (Bosch)

76-79 091911023 (Bosch)

Automatic Trans
73-79 003911023A (Bosch)

OVERSIZE STARTER BUSHING

002 to 091, 091 to 002

Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:24 pm

the 68-71 bell housing isn't really true. 68-70 have no throw out bearing guide and 71 is the only 002 bell housing to have the t/o bearing guide, making it (yet another) 71 'only' part

if you want, i can snap a pic for you

Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:53 pm

Thank you.
For the purpose of figuring out which starter is needed. I was not going to get into the specific differences of the throw out bearings and clutches.
Maybe the title is misleading?
Tcash

Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:17 pm

skills@eurocarsplus wrote: the 68-71 bell housing isn't really true. 68-70 have no throw out bearing guide and 71 is the only 002 bell housing to have the t/o bearing guide, making it (yet another) 71 'only' part

if you want, i can snap a pic for you

Certain bellhousings as early as '69 (maybe earlier) have mounting holes for the M7 studs that hold the guide sleeve on. I agree that it's irrelivant for the starter issue, but the guide could be installed easily on almost any 002 bellhousing.

Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:07 am

BUMP
Any corrections needed?
Thank you
Tcash

Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:37 am

Just a small note for 091 transmission starters:

VW 091 911 023 corresponds to Bosch 0 001 211 221.

With that part number you can look up the datasheet on the Bosch Classic site. SR87 does not seem to be the usual 10-digit part #, perhaps it was just the short-hand.

Also, it strikes me that the starter types table on the Bentley (Electrical System section, pp 9) does not list the 091 911 023 starter.

On a side note, has anyone heard/used a VW 091 911 023 BX? I've just come across one. Visually, the solenoid has a bit of a different shape.

Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:32 pm

note different mounting flange, this is probably for aircooled vanagons.

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:28 am

kaiisons wrote: note different mounting flange, this is probably for aircooled vanagons.

The BX seems to be a Vanagon starter indeed, thanks for noticing.

https://www.vwheritage.com/091911023bx-starter-motor-t25-petrol-5-81-12-86-not-auto/