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Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:40 pm

my 1966 vw beetle has stopped turning off with the switch about a month after i bought it. about this time last year. i replaced the switch today because my key broke off in the switch yesterday. still will not turn off, i was sure the ignition switch was the issue. but i now have no idea. it starts fine but i have to pull the coil wire to kill it and I'm tired of getting shocked. any ideas. i can completely take the key out of the switch after i start it and nothing happens.
thanks for the help

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:42 pm

Put it in second and drop the clutch?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:54 pm

:) Basically the switch should have only three wires to it.

One being the (+) plus wire as the power source. (fuse panel)
2nd being the wire going to the (+) 15 on the coil.
3rd being the wire to the starter solenoid.

The power wire being hot all the time and when the key is turned you are connecting internally to the coil and further turning will activate the starter to start the engine and when releasing the key a bit will disengage the starter.

Not all 66 cars have the power source going thru the headlite switch and maybe that is what you have...some do and some don't...I have seen both over the yrs past.

You will need a test lite to narrow down the + wires when the key is on or off from the fuse panel etc going to the coil.

Do believe the headlite setup was for the EU mkt and not for the US then again I could be wrong.....one of my traits.

The 67 early ignition switches were all the same three wire connections.

Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:12 pm

All '66s (and many other years) have the power for the ignition switch go TO, though not THROUGH the headlight switch. If it doesn't, a prior owner has hacked your wiring.

Study the route from the battery/regulator through to the front electrics and you'll find the path described below.

The thick red wire from the battery or regulator goes to one of the pair of terminal 30 connectors on the headlight switch, with no connectors along the path.

From the other terminal 30on the headlight switch, another thick red wire goes to the end fusebox tab, but note that it goes TO but not THROUGH the fuse. That is just a convenient multi-point connecting tab. From there it goes to terminal 30 of the ignition switch.

Once through the ignition switch, the wire from terminal 50 goes to the OTHER end fusebox tab, and yet again, uses that tab merely for connection convenience, and the ignition power does NOT go through the fuse.

Any other arrangement means you have to set things back to the correct configuration or you risk burning wires or other problems like what you are having now.

The reason for all this seeming complexity and strange current path is that VW wanted to provide the lowest resistance to the highest current devices like the headlights (for best performance), and minimize wire length and the number of connectors (to save money).

Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:16 pm

What changed?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:46 pm

:) The version shown is for the 1300 (US version)

Now my book shows the same diagram but says TYPICAL at the bottom of the page for the 66 year but still only THREE wires to the Ignition switch which controls the engine starting...running and being able to turn it OFF.

I'm on my 3rd 1966 bug and they all had the same Ignition and Headlite switch setup.

Back in 1968 had a late 50's or early 60's bug that had the Ignition wire going to the Headlite switch that also had a GLASS fuse that was factory made for the VW.....NOT a after market item...weird but true.

Car would on occasion die and I just popped in a new 20 or 30 amp fuse.

A simple solution is just to go the three wire deal.

Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:32 pm

I'm kinda having trouble keeping up here, I'm confused when you say it run through the headlight switch ??? i have all fuses in and good except one head light i think the one that works the drivers side front beam. the bulbs shorted and just blows them as soon as i turn it on. i will get around to replacing that soon. but ya the guy before completely had no clue what he was doing a jacked up the wiring just twist and tape everything and just all jacked up but it was all working so i haven't touched it. i traced all wires and there is no shorts bad connection in that I'm thinking is something mechanical that wore out ? i could be off. i hate electrical. dumb it down for me

Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:41 pm

HRVW wrote: :) The version shown is for the 1300 (US version)

Non-USA version also has the main power going to the headlights first. The only difference there is that there is a single terminal 30 instead of two on the headlamp switch. (Other differences exist like the 4-ways, but that doesn't affect headlamp or ignition switches).

Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:47 pm

Print out the upper wiring diagram enlarged at kinkos, and have them laminate it. Then mark off each wire you check with a dry-erase marker.

Your wiring is hosed and only a wire-by-wire check will flush out this problem, or the next one if you don't.

Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:03 pm

i may have found it the 50 red wire coming from the ignition switch is going to the alternator not the starter, its a 12v conversion. would this be my cause? because i haven't moved that wire ?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:11 pm

If your '66 had the one-year only 6 volt flasher unit, and some one converted the car to 12 volts, did they use a flasher from a '67/'68, or did they mess that up for you?
Those flashers have power when the ignition is on, but also, they have power when the ignition is off because they control the 4-way emergency flashers.
Is it possible that the flasher (or conversion) has become defective and that power is going out of the flasher and back to the fuse panel thus powering the coil even when the ignition switch is in the off position?

Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:45 pm

See if removing the smallest gauge wire (the one that grounds the indicator light) from the voltage regulator shuts it off. The generator indicator lamp in the speedometer is powered by the switch, but if the regulator has an internal issue some generated current might be back-flowing to the switch's "on" contact and thence to the coil.

Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:09 am

Harleyelf wrote: See if removing the smallest gauge wire (the one that grounds the indicator light) from the voltage regulator shuts it off. The generator indicator lamp in the speedometer is powered by the switch, but if the regulator has an internal issue some generated current might be back-flowing to the switch's "on" contact and thence to the coil.

uhhhh not sure i follow could you tell me what wire that would be on the wire diagram. I'm pretty sure the turn signal doesn't work with out the key but ill go check that. he has spliced almost every wire so the color and size are not always what they should be

Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:22 am

ya doesn't work with out the key. also there is the cylinder thing that has a fan and connections into the gas tank and pipes leading all over it seems to be powered but im not sure if its working or what the hell it is, it looks stock and i can't read the panel on the side of it, in another language. its pretty big any idea what it is? also i believe I'm just going to redo all the wiring but its a mess and i don't want to ef up something using to stock wiring diagram when i need to do it differently for a 12v.

Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:37 am

asheville66 wrote: ya doesn't work with out the key. also there is the cylinder thing that has a fan and connections into the gas tank and pipes leading all over it seems to be powered but im not sure if its working or what the hell it is, it looks stock and i can't read the panel on the side of it, in another language. its pretty big any idea what it is? also i believe I'm just going to redo all the wiring but its a mess and i don't want to ef up something using to stock wiring diagram when i need to do it differently for a 12v.
Gas heater.
It burns gasoline.
Heats the cabin.

Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:42 pm

iowegian wrote: asheville66 wrote: ya doesn't work with out the key. also there is the cylinder thing that has a fan and connections into the gas tank and pipes leading all over it seems to be powered but im not sure if its working or what the hell it is, it looks stock and i can't read the panel on the side of it, in another language. its pretty big any idea what it is? also i believe I'm just going to redo all the wiring but its a mess and i don't want to ef up something using to stock wiring diagram when i need to do it differently for a 12v.
Gas heater.
It burns gasoline.
Heats the cabin.

Check out the big head on Chuck!

Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:55 pm

iowegian wrote: asheville66 wrote: ya doesn't work with out the key. also there is the cylinder thing that has a fan and connections into the gas tank and pipes leading all over it seems to be powered but im not sure if its working or what the hell it is, it looks stock and i can't read the panel on the side of it, in another language. its pretty big any idea what it is? also i believe I'm just going to redo all the wiring but its a mess and i don't want to ef up something using to stock wiring diagram when i need to do it differently for a 12v.
Gas heater.
It burns gasoline.
Heats the cabin.

sweeeeeet can't find much on them but its 6v and there is a ground not hooked up so I'm not sure iv i should hook that thing up not trying to burn it down haha. but still no luck figuring out my shut off issue

Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:12 pm

Looks like #61 on that diagram; not the turn signal, the charging system idiot light on the speedometer.

You say it is a 12V conversion? Alternator or generator? If alternator, it's the push-on connector to the alternator back near the fan. If generator, it's on the voltage regulator. In either case, it will be the one that makes the idiot light go out when you disconnect it.

Your coil is getting power from somewhere that is not the switch. Only the fuel gauge and the two idiot lights should share that circuit. The oil pressure sensor has no access to power, neither does the fuel gauge. The voltage regulator, on the other hand, can fail and send current to places it shouldn't be. Alternators have internal regulators in most cases.

Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:14 pm

Harleyelf wrote: Looks like #61 on that diagram; not the turn signal, the charging system idiot light on the speedometer.

You say it is a 12V conversion? Alternator or generator? If alternator, it's the push-on connector to the alternator back near the fan. If generator, it's on the voltage regulator. In either case, it will be the one that makes the idiot light go out when you disconnect it.

Your coil is getting power from somewhere that is not the switch. Only the fuel gauge and the two idiot lights should share that circuit. The oil pressure sensor has no access to power, neither does the fuel gauge. The voltage regulator, on the other hand, can fail and send current to places it shouldn't be. Alternators have internal regulators in most cases.

i disconnected the cable from the light going to the top of the alternator and nothing happened while running. also saw my coil bolt had fallen out and was against the electro magnetic pilot jet or O2 on the diagram, i put a new bolt in and still nothing. now the pilot jet has no wire going to it, i believe it should have on running from the right side of the coil correct? its just above the oil pressure switch and below the coil left side of carb... this is frustrating

Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:19 pm

I'm willing to re wire all that mess in the front but i need to know if there is anything deferent i need to do to because of the conversion. also has a modern head unit wired in to it, no doubt by the same guy that effed this up in the first place.