TheSamba.com :: View topic - Did not Buy! Shopping Advice Please: Subaru SVX conversion

Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:59 am

Our son is looking at a Westy with a Subaru SVX conversion.

I have no idea what to look for, what to ask for, etc.

Any advice? Thanks in advance

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:18 pm

I highly recommend having a mechanic with Vanagon, conversion and SVX conversion experience give it a pre purchase examination.

Not the easiest conversion to have pass California inspection.

Again, a knowledgeable mechanic is recommended.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:20 pm

What conversion parts were used, how long ago the conversion was done.
Ask the owner to drive and take you for a spin, this will give you an idea of the driving style the van has been subjected to.
The transmission, very important! Was it rebuilt and with what and by who.
The SVX can eat transmission if abused, treated nicely and it can hold out. Transmission upgrades and a rebuild will likely be in the future.
Why an SVX? A 2.5 Subi has been reported to be very satisfactory.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:26 pm

My 1991 Syncro with the EG33 engine has over 100,000 since being swapped into a Vanagon.
The transmission has 240,000 total miles and still going strong.
Many others have destroyed transmissions in under 5,000 miles.

I agree with Wellington, the test drive will let you know how the owner has driven it...or they read Samba threads and will be on their best behavior :wink:
I vote for the latter as the vehicle is for sale.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:30 pm

Buy one with the CARB smog inspection sticker already on it. Pay extra if needed. It will save you a huge PITA if the van needs to go through the process.....well worth the extra coin....

Good luck....one is on my bucket list future..

Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:52 pm

Insyncro is of course correct about finding an SVX-vanagon mechanic to look at it (or even just a subaru-vanagon mechanic, of which there are a much greater number), but it is also understandable that you/your son may not have the opportunity to do a pre-purchase inspection with a qualified person.

In that case, here are some observables:
First, find out how many miles are on the engine. If it's >200k and hasn't had a rebuild that would be excessive.
Open the engine bay and take a look around. Not expecting much here and it could range from clean to messy and not really indicate anything engine health. If you see burnt wiring or something else dodgy though that would be a big warning sign. Look underneath for leaking oil.

Drive it. Don't just let the owner drive it around with you in it, insist on driving it yourself. Of course be nice to their van, this isn't a power test. Here's where you can get a feel for issues/red flags.

Does it waver strongly at idle or hold a very high idle? SVX engines can get these problems and it's always fixable but can be a big headache.

When driving, upon acceleration or deceleration, do you hear humming, grinding, or other speed-dependent noises? If so, the transaxle is worn, abused, or broken and you should ask for $1500 off because that is what it will cost for a quality rebuild (of a 2wd unit with minimal upgrades).

Does it start well? Does the clutch slip or engage funny? These are also issues that can occur during a swap.

The engine is a good lump that can last a long time and can really modernize the driving style of the van. But the EG33 (the Subaru name for the engine out of the SVX) is 15-20 years old at this point and prone to the same troubles that begin to plague a lot of engines of this age (sensors, hoses, other "external" engine parts degrading).

Source: I own what you're considering and have dealt with what I warn about. I'm still a happy owner though, just with less knuckle skin.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:59 pm

The SVX conversions that used an adaptor plate sometimes had problems with the engine/transmission connection in that some bolts would strip. This can be remedied, but it does not happen with the conversions made using a bell housing type adaptor.

Small Car Performance ("SCP")(see here: http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=175) and RJES (see here: http://www.rjes.com/ ) are the two manufacturers of these bell housings.

The RJES is considered, rightly in my opinion, to be a superior execution of the concept. But as an owner of the SCP bell housing, I can say that its main shortcoming, clutch actuation and feel, can be made acceptable with relatively easy mods. Therefore, either bell housing approach is vastly preferable over the adaptor plate.

As for the engine, let's be realistic: You can buy a mid-range mileage SVX engine for $800 to $1,000 to replace the one in the subject van if it fails or is tired. Ditto for JDM engines.

The donor cars are dropping like flies from transmission failure, not engine failure. The time, and thus money, involved in any swap is all the niggling details and that is already done on the vehicle in question. Whether it has been done well or poorly - - well, that's another matter.

Some pics of the engine and trans and peripherals would give all of us a better basis for comment.

With the engine number, you can back-trace the VIN and do a CarFax to get an idea of the actual mileage before the engine was removed from the donor car.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:00 pm

rockfish wrote: Our son is looking at a Westy with a Subaru SVX conversion.

I have no idea what to look for, what to ask for, etc.

Any advice? Thanks in advance
If he's in the Bay Area, call the Buslab in Berkeley and ask if they will do a pre-purchase inspection. Buslab was one of the few around doing professional SVX installs before the BAR dropped the hammer on the SVX transplant in NorCal.

The key things to consider and inspect is mileage on the SVX engine itself. What was done in terms of freshening the motor up before install. (Was it dropped in "as is" or were vacumm lines redone (i.e. removed intake and refresh all lines). I know of one "professional" who was quite proud of how little he did to freshen up the motor before a swap.. I have always been a little leary about that approach.

Look at whether a bellhousing was used or an adapter plate. Bellhousing is a bit nicer and may indicate (but not guarantee) a more thorough job done.
I'd look into what was done with the transmission. Rebuilt by a pro for the purpose of an SVX powerplant? How many miles on trans rebuild? what kind of driving since rebuild?

Take a careful look at the fire wall for how clean the cut is. Does the intake fit against the fire wall?

Take a very close look at the harness. Should be clean and orderly. Hopefully may have tags on it still.

Is a shortened oil pan in place?

Ask to see any and all receipts for parts used. The more often you see "RJES" and "Burley" and "RMW" and "Outfront" and "Smallcar", the better.

I would review the excellent thread done here on the Samba by James a couple yrs back on a complete SVX teardown and install.. including the RJES belhousing RMW exhaust, and complete transmission rebuild.. That thread will give you a very good idea of what an SVX transplant done to the nines looks like.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:06 pm

This is an amazing response. We can't thank you enough.

The owner is bringing his Suby by in a few moments and we'll take a look. And we'll definitely ask to take it out on a ride.

The BusLab inspection is a great idea. The owner tells us that RMW has just recently performed an inspection and he has ton of receipts/reports. Engine has less than 90K on it...but we'll ask if that is less than 90K total or 90K in the Westy.

Stay tuned...

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:19 pm

rockfish wrote: . The owner tells us that RMW has just recently performed an inspection and he has ton of receipts/reports.

^ That's a good sign! Fort Collins is a long ways from Palo Alto though... :?

Mon Jul 28, 2014 3:38 pm

rockfish wrote: The owner is bringing his Suby by in a few moments and we'll take a look. And we'll definitely ask to take it out on a ride.

I saw that one...

From the pictures - Non-reversed manifold, stock intake, stock airbox. All the parts look like SmallCar bits - I don't see any of the shiny RMW stuff.

It looks like a relatively clean transplant - no unwrapped wires or errant hoses laying around.

Looks like a decent van - hope it works out for you!

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:56 pm

The best advice you got above was that the seller see to the CARB sticker and getting it smoged. The SVX is technically not a legal motor in CA. If you buy it and can't get it smogged you are up a creek with out a usable motor and the only conversion parts you could use to put in the legal 2.2 would have to be the Kennedy Engineering Performance adapter and related parts. The only way around the smog issue is if the car was originally a diesel and is still registered as a diesel. CA does not check or smog diesels from the early '80s. Also, while I am a fan of the SVX due to its strong low end torque, with out a trans that is geared very high to lower the engine RPMs at highway speeds, it is a gas guzzler.

Hans

Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:57 pm

Your son should consider a VW 1.8T conversion that is CARB legal. The SVX was a limited production car and many parts are getting hard to source ( the 6 cylinder conversions also have a reputation for prematurely wearing out drivetrain components with their 240HP when the most powerful production VW van had 112HP.) Maybe even a VW TDI diesel conversion. The only engine conversions that are California Air Resources Board ( CARB ) approved are the older Kennedy Engineering Subaru EJ22 (4 cylinder engine) and the VW 1.8T engine conversion from Stephans Auto Haus in Sacramento ( German Motorwerkes in Monterey also does 1.8T conversions that pass emissions testing.) Any conversion to alternate fuel such as Diesel is emissions testing exempt if the vehicle is 1997 or older. Any converted van should come with proper documentation for future mechanics to reference or they will be difficult to service. I owned a Subaru EJ22 powered Van it had plenty of power compared to the original VW motor....the last thing you need in a Van is excessive power and speed.

Why does your son want a powerful old VW van?....I would want a reliable one for him myself but, whats a guy like me know.....I dont do Fakebook.....just sit in the traffic on 84 waiting for all the idiots to get onto their campus while I'm trying to get to Palo Alto.

Van Cafe in Santa Cruz is a good resource for local vans for sale and parts to keep them running. If your son is not mechanically inclined, I wouldnt buy him a Vanagon! I hope he has space and tools to be able to work on whatever purchase he ends up with!

Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:23 pm

There are a fair number of SVX vans with CARB sticker .. but they're making it harder for us each year to keep them on the road. New rules on upgraded exhausts/dual cats etc.

To sell a car in CA, you have to get a recent smog. So, if it has a CARB sticker, and it passes smog as is, it's a green light to purchase.

Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:14 pm

If you buy it, start looking for a complete spare engine. In the last two or three years I know of three people in the Bay Area that have had to either look for one or use their spare one due to damaged engine and/or components and sourcing spares is not that easy anymore.

Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:25 pm

Did not buy it, did not like it.

Bitchin' engine set up. Monster rims and tires. But...

The kid said it was an 84 chassis/body. Wrong. More like 82 or 83.

So many things to be concerned about - luggage rack taped to the front of the vehicle; all of the luggage rack and pop top bolts were rusted (dark color); front corner of pop top had been obviously repaired; PO hand brushed bed liner on rocker panels - did not tape off; PO hand brushed bed liner in the indented horizontal 2" line that runs back to front - again no tape off; slider wouldn't open from the inside; original antenna was sawed off and left on body; front bumper end caps had been cut so bed liner could be applied to bumper mount; kid said AC compressor is just mounted on bottom of the vehicle --- except it should be at the engine don't you think?; hot wheels and tires - no way are they rated for the weight of a Westy, let alone snow/mud/weather; kid didn't have any records for engine/tranny install; no smog certificate even though the ad says he has one; needs new seals around door windows and windshield; 1960's luggage rack and pop top seals used instead of proper seals; side mirrors barely attached; slider exterior handle hanging down; etc.

It was fun to take a ride and experience the 230+ HP...but otherwise not a good buy for $18K

Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:32 pm

Seems a lot of people think because GW is getting what they get for a reconditioned Vanagon, they should be able to do so as well. For that price, it sounds like you made the right choice walking away. Not always easy to do. The correct one will come along. Sorry

Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:33 pm

:shock: Good decision....not too hard to make either. :D

Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm

Don't worry, someone making a compulsive buy will pay close to that price not knowing about the actual worth and value associated.
Smart move posting here, but bad luck for the seller :lol:

As far as the comments about "hard to find SVX engines and parts"....there are plenty of Subaru enthusiasts out there with stashes and I sell many of my stored EG33 parts and complete engines in that community.
If it is an H6, I have everything needed to maintain these awesome power plants.

Just as with the Waterboxer Guru rebuilders, there are H6 specialists.
One of the threads in this forum features building an H6 with more power and torque than stock...with my experience and personal vans as proof, please do not consider 6cylinder power/torque unless you have an extremely high budget, an experienced crew to maintain all of the parts and a need for building/owning such a unique vehicle.

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:21 pm

insyncro wrote:
As far as the comments about "hard to find SVX engines and parts"....there are plenty of Subaru enthusiasts out there with stashes and I sell many of my stored EG33 parts and complete engines in that community.
If it is an H6, I have everything needed to maintain these awesome power plants.

Missing the point, harder to find than most other engine conversions out there. How many SVX were built? my point being you break down and it won't be easy to get quickly back on the road unless you have a spare....point in my case as I laid it out above, you do keep spares....