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Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:11 pm

I am building a 1641 DP motor.
I am sort of starting to regret the 87mm pistons and liners but I already got them so I guess I will work with what I have.
Here is a list of parts, maybe you guys can offer advice or convince me to NOT use 87mm pistons and liners and instead go back to 85.5mm.

AS 41 dual pressure relief case
Mahle main bearings
Reground crank
Mahle rod bearings
Recondition stock rods
Engle 110 cam
Mahle cam bearings
SCAT lightweight lifters
Lightened flywheel
Chinese 87mm pistons and liners (didn't tell me brand. They're in a blue and yellow box. Maybe someone knows what brand they are?)
Stock dual port heads
Stock rockers
26mm oil pump

Outside parts:

Doghouse
doghouse oil cooler
009 distributor
34-3 carb

I think compression will be 8:1 unless you guys have a better suggestion?

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks :wink:

Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:16 pm

Do you guys think I can get about 60 HP considering everything is built together correctly?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:32 pm

there are many pars that dont match...

first, the 87s will work, but don't expect to get to too much out of them, furthermore, they WILL warp when the engine will get overheated |(and it will, according to all your other part selection)

the W110 is a good cam, but wont work with the original crank.
this cam will produce power up to about 5.5KRPM, way above your crank limitations... so you probably gonna pound the bearing seats.

if you want to get some power out of this build, the heads are where you need to look...
good port job, better rockers and better matching of the parts.

Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:39 pm

Heads will have new valves and 3 angle valve job
I didn't know what rockers to use so I figured I could go with stock since 1600 to 1641 isn't much of a difference.
Should I go with a W100 cam then?

What can I do so that it does not overheat?
I know temps will be higher considering the thin walls but what can I do to save it from overheating and warping?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:49 pm

Not use 87s...

Either stock or bore the case for thicker cyls....

Is the 41ccs really worth running thin cyls?

Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:54 pm

since it seems you dont want to build a bigger or stronger engine, i would go bone stock.
if you insist on changing things -
W100 (or any similar grind), 1.25 rockers, do some work on the heads (valve job is nice, but wont get you the power), consider different breathing system and exhaust.

if you want to go bigger on the P/C and dont want to bore the case - go with thick wall 88s (slip ins), it will be much more reliable than the 87s

Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:27 am

I were you build a little bigger cc 1800cc odd ist a normal vw engine 65 hp? :?

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:38 am

If you have the 87 P/C's already just run them.

They aren't that much thinner and there is a guy in Sweden or Norway putting 30 plus lbs of boost into a 1641 in a Ghia that is putting out almost 400 hp and does a high 9 second quarter mile.

You might not get 100,000 miles out of it but you should be able to get 50,000 without problems.
For the price point I would run them.
If running a stock carb you need to watch the cam due to the Pict 34 not liking the vacuum change at idle.

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:46 am

Balance the pistons. They'll be ok for what you are doing.

The 110 cam is NOT going to idle well with the 34-3 carb.

Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:17 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1643462

Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:55 am

use a CB performance "Cheater Cam"...
http://www.cbperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=2280

Casey

Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:09 am

For my first engine I built what you are proposing with a Web 218 cam, I think it was ground on 106 LC. It ran fine with ICTs and 40IDFs in a Beetle. Never tried it with the stock carb. Web 119 or Web 118 may be worth a look, too.

Stan

Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:33 pm

CB 2280 would be a great cam for a 1641 with a stock 34-3

Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:50 pm

LeninCas wrote: I am building a 1641 DP motor.
I am sort of starting to regret the 87mm pistons and liners but I already got them so I guess I will work with what I have.
Here is a list of parts, maybe you guys can offer advice or convince me to NOT use 87mm pistons and liners and instead go back to 85.5mm.

AS 41 dual pressure relief case
Mahle main bearings
Reground crank
Mahle rod bearings
Recondition stock rods
Engle 110 cam
Mahle cam bearings
SCAT lightweight lifters
Lightened flywheel
Chinese 87mm pistons and liners (didn't tell me brand. They're in a blue and yellow box. Maybe someone knows what brand they are?)
Stock dual port heads
Stock rockers
26mm oil pump

Outside parts:

Doghouse
doghouse oil cooler
009 distributor
34-3 carb

I think compression will be 8:1 unless you guys have a better suggestion?

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks :wink:

First off, 88mm pistons slip into the case and only needs the heads opened. They're the best choice for a small step up over stock. If you already have the 87s, keep them and use them.

Next, what's your budget? As much as most VW enthusiasts don't want to, the first thing you should buy is a wideband. Next set aside just enough for an all stock reconditioned rebuild. Then, the leftover money can help you decide on what upgrades to purchase. IMO, the correct purchase order after the wideband is header, welding labor for the O2 sensor bung on the header, 88 thickwall pistons, dual carbs (Solex 34s, Kadrons, or Dellorto/Weber 36s), THEN cam/lifters. Reason for this is simple. More intake flow without more exhaust flow is pointless. A performance cam won't be able to realize it's peak RPM range without more intake flow because the stock carb is governed by the venturi.

As far as compression, it's based on your camshaft's specs and a little on your induction and other little details. 8.1:1 is not the "one size fit's all" compression for reliability. A 110 cam with GOOD intake and exhaust flow should be around 9.0:1 on 91 octane. Stock cammed engines like static compressions near 8.0:1.

Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:09 am

If you want the best bang for your buck with a 1600/1641cc engine, toss some dual 36mm or 40mm Dells or Webers on it. Be wary of the limits of the stock crankshaft, but the added torque will put a smile on your face.

Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:39 am

With all of the information above you are headed in the correct direction. HP cost $$. A balanced crankshaft, rods, pistons, flywheel actually should be at the top of your list. The engine will be so much smoother to start with.
My input would be save a few more $$ and do it correctly the first time.

Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:02 pm

Other than the cylinders and pistons what parts do you own?
If you own all the parts I would put it together and run it

Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:19 pm

Parts I own
Case
Stock crank
rods
cam
lifters
Pistons and cylinders
heads
rockers

I have a pair of 34 ICTs. Would those idle well?
Am I better off buying a 100 cam to use with my stock 34-3?

I actually got rid of the lightened flywheel and bought a stock one since those are balanced better. I will bead blast it and get it resurfaced now.

Also, now I don't want to use the 87mm. I think I will go with Mahle 85.5s and a 100 cam to use with my 34-3.

Better?

Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:53 pm

my suggestion is run the 87's. while you probably won't get 100k miles out of them how many miles do you really plan on putting on the motor? if you put 5k miles a year, then in 10 years you might have to replace the pistons/cylinders.

if your 34 ict's are in good shape, use them. get good linkage tho!! you will get better mpg and more power.

if you use the dual ict's, then go with the 110 cam . i would use some bolt together rocker shafts and keep rpms under 5k. if you want to spend some more money get some HD single springs, and some steel pushrods (or aircooled.net hd aluminum ones).

if you DO NOT use the dual carbs and run a stock carb, then go for the w100 cam, or the cb cheater cam.

you need a better than stock exhaust. for that matter a 1 3/8 header would be alot better than stock.

Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:39 pm

I liked ICTs, if they are in good shape run them. They idled and worked well with Web 218, I'd want try a Web 118 cam if I had your parts.

Stan