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Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:01 pm

Assume I want to build a big cc Type 1 using a TF-1 case. How big, bore & stroke wise, can I go without having a significant negative effect on reliability/longevity? And by reliability/longevity I'm talking relative to a equal HP 2332. I'd like to get 200+ real world RWHPs at my 5000-6000 foot altitude.

Are 101.6 cylinders & 90mm strokes actually streetable? I'd like to be able to drive to the Springs, say 200 miles round trip in the summer, without melting the engine. Or is this just not realistic without going to a turbo motor? I'd consider Nickies but then I think I'd be limited to 94s.

Thanks.

Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:17 pm

You only need 50-60 HP to drive to the springs. A 2332 with a mild turbo will get you the 200 and the rest of the time, if you drive with the traffic, you won't be getting any heat problems. Longevity depends on your right foot and braking ability.

I'll be getting a turbo/fuel injection for Christmas.....Ms. Santa likes me....

Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:10 pm

2332, cb heads, turbo/CB efi on pump gas
Build it big enough that you will not spool the turbo on the highway and there won't be any heat problems. Using CNC heads, regular cylinders and pistons, If you accidentally overboost it then it's no big deal to replace any part you broke.

To do it NA could do 4 inch bore with IDAs on e-85, Jeff D ran his on regular gas, but probably just to prove it can be done.

There are ways to reduce crank flex with long strokes but ultimately it's not the best way to make HP, but it can bring the power down to lower rpms for ya.
.

Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:04 pm

I just had my 2332 cc Beetle on the Dynojet a couple weeks ago:

-elevation 3,640 ft;
-204 WHP and 175 ft-lb torque;
-10:1 CR with 94 octane premium pump fuel;
-IDA's with 3rd progression hole, quite smooth driving in town;
-high 12's in the 1/4-mile at Friday night street legal races;
-Mahle 94 mm pistons/cylinders;
-CB 84 mm crank & rods;
-stock mag case;
-JPM MS230 heads (10 cooling fins);
-stock OEM FI doghouse cooling;
-stock '68 Beetle suspension except for dropped spindles & DOT drag radials.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:48 am

Thanks for the feedback. I find the whole turbo/efi deal intimidating.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:20 am

and expensive

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:17 am

neil68 wrote: I just had my 2332 cc Beetle on the Dynojet a couple weeks ago:

-elevation 3,640 ft;
-204 WHP and 175 ft-lb torque;
-10:1 CR with 94 octane premium pump fuel;
-IDA's with 3rd progression hole, quite smooth driving in town;
-high 12's in the 1/4-mile at Friday night street legal races;
-Mahle 94 mm pistons/cylinders;
-CB 84 mm crank & rods;
-stock mag case;
-JPM MS230 heads (10 cooling fins);
-stock OEM FI doghouse cooling;
-stock '68 Beetle suspension except for dropped spindles & DOT drag radials.
Thanks, Neil. I'd actually seen your vid when I was surfing around. How are those JPM heads working for you? Do you find they make a significant difference in your running temps compared to others you've had?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:23 am

How much cutting, if any, does a good turbo kit require in a '58 T1? I want to keep my deck lid in place no matter what.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:30 am

neil68 wrote: I just had my 2332 cc Beetle on the Dynojet a couple weeks ago:

-elevation 3,640 ft;
-204 WHP and 175 ft-lb torque;
-10:1 CR with 94 octane premium pump fuel;
-IDA's with 3rd progression hole, quite smooth driving in town;
-high 12's in the 1/4-mile at Friday night street legal races;
-Mahle 94 mm pistons/cylinders;
-CB 84 mm crank & rods;
-stock mag case;
-JPM MS230 heads (10 cooling fins);
-stock OEM FI doghouse cooling;
-stock '68 Beetle suspension except for dropped spindles & DOT drag radials. And what cam?

Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:35 am

Im a big fan of big motors on the street. I had my 68 before it was stolen just months ago 2332 giant cam almost .700 lift didnt really turn on around 4-5krpm 10.5:1 on 91. Idas. It drove like a small 2liter around town. But felt like no2 kicked in when the cam hit the sweet spot.

Ive been slowly collecting parts for 3 liter. 103x90.2 3006cc. That will be a fun one.

Jeff denham proved big liter motors are reliable. He drove old blue with a 3 liter from orange county to vegas, raced and won the REAL STREET class, then drove home.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:22 am

Anvil wrote: neil68 wrote: I just had my 2332 cc Beetle on the Dynojet a couple weeks ago:

-elevation 3,640 ft;
-204 WHP and 175 ft-lb torque;
-10:1 CR with 94 octane premium pump fuel;
-IDA's with 3rd progression hole, quite smooth driving in town;
-high 12's in the 1/4-mile at Friday night street legal races;
-Mahle 94 mm pistons/cylinders;
-CB 84 mm crank & rods;
-stock mag case;
-JPM MS230 heads (10 cooling fins);
-stock OEM FI doghouse cooling;
-stock '68 Beetle suspension except for dropped spindles & DOT drag radials.
Thanks, Neil. I'd actually seen your vid when I was surfing around. How are those JPM heads working for you? Do you find they make a significant difference in your running temps compared to others you've had?
I've found that oil temps using MS230 heads are similar to a stock engine, 190-210 F. The FI Doghouse cooling shroud with Venturi ring, German stock tin, Hoover Bit, etc, seems to work well. I only run synthetic oil.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:28 am

Boolean wrote: neil68 wrote: I just had my 2332 cc Beetle on the Dynojet a couple weeks ago:

-elevation 3,640 ft;
-204 WHP and 175 ft-lb torque;
-10:1 CR with 94 octane premium pump fuel;
-IDA's with 3rd progression hole, quite smooth driving in town;
-high 12's in the 1/4-mile at Friday night street legal races;
-Mahle 94 mm pistons/cylinders;
-CB 84 mm crank & rods;
-stock mag case;
-JPM MS230 heads (10 cooling fins);
-stock OEM FI doghouse cooling;
-stock '68 Beetle suspension except for dropped spindles & DOT drag radials. And what cam?
JPM Raptor cam: 274 degrees (0.05"/1.27 mm) and 0.425" (10.8 mm) lift. I have Scat 1.41 rockers, total lift is 0.599". CB VW650 valve springs.

Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:47 pm

A lot of it has to do with how you drive/treat it. If you beat on it like a race car all the time, plan to spend many weekends or weeknights dicking around with it, making repairs to the VW aftermarket's famously fragile componentry. If you drive conservatively you can feasibly build an engine that will last, but be forewarned: just by its nature as an air-cooled VW, be prepared to invest a fair amount of time "taking care of it."

Fri Aug 15, 2014 3:46 am

You can get your 200HP with a smaller engine with milder cam if you run E85.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:08 am

modok wrote: 2332, cb heads, turbo/CB efi on pump gas
Build it big enough that you will not spool the turbo on the highway and there won't be any heat problems. Using CNC heads, regular cylinders and pistons, If you accidentally overboost it then it's no big deal to replace any part you broke.

To do it NA could do 4 inch bore with IDAs on e-85, Jeff D ran his on regular gas, but probably just to prove it can be done.

There are ways to reduce crank flex with long strokes but ultimately it's not the best way to make HP, but it can bring the power down to lower rpms for ya.
.

Please tell me you are joking? CB's "efi" is the biggest piece of shit ever to hit the VW market.

NOBODY should EVER consider buying that junk.

Buy an AEM ems, or bigstuff 3, wire it up and have a pro tune it. You will enjoy every penny spent.

Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:37 pm

Alright, since my '62 with the 2180 is pretty much done engine wise (for now), I'm going to turn back to my '58's 1904. I've decided it's time to pop my turbo cherry.

Right now the engine is currently a 1904, Panchitos, Web Cam 163, compression is about 8.5-1. The engine is solid, less than 2,500 miles on it (it was originally going to be my wife's daily, but she likes the '62 better and it has killer heat and is set up to be used as a year-round car here in CO). The '58 is pretty pristine so I don't want to do any cutting on it that can't be easily reversed and I'd want everything to fit under the stock deck lid. Is there an off the shelf solution (pre-engineered/bolt-on) or does it have to be assembled piece meal? The car won't be driven during the winter so I have until Spring to get it done. Any input is appreciated.

Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:58 pm

With the TF-1 case you can run an 84 stroke crank and 4" bore which will give you 2724cc. Shawn Geers did one recently and it made something like 250hp.

Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:31 pm

mightymouse wrote: modok wrote: 2332, cb heads, turbo/CB efi on pump gas
Build it big enough that you will not spool the turbo on the highway and there won't be any heat problems. Using CNC heads, regular cylinders and pistons, If you accidentally overboost it then it's no big deal to replace any part you broke.

To do it NA could do 4 inch bore with IDAs on e-85, Jeff D ran his on regular gas, but probably just to prove it can be done.

There are ways to reduce crank flex with long strokes but ultimately it's not the best way to make HP, but it can bring the power down to lower rpms for ya.
.

Please tell me you are joking? CB's "efi" is the biggest piece of shit ever to hit the VW market.

NOBODY should EVER consider buying that junk.

Buy an AEM ems, or bigstuff 3, wire it up and have a pro tune it. You will enjoy every penny spent.

Care to elaborate? That's an awful serious accusation to throw out absent of any details?

Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:38 pm

He's comp-u-tur illiterate, or scared. :lol:

Seriously though, if you're talking about the old 4-knob I'm with you. But the rest of it seems to work pretty good, and the new system should be tits if what I'm hearing is true.