TheSamba.com :: View topic - Selling Vanagon / buying Eurovan, need advice

Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Hi,

I currently own a 82 Westy, originally diesel but converted to a 84 VW golf engine about 6 years ago. There is 270K ish miles on the car but the golf only had 40K and I drive it about 2-3K miles per year at most. It has a little rust on the seams in the back but over-all it's in great shape for it's age and northern location. I replaced the tent, engine, transmission, radiator, heater, blower fan... the fridge is long gone as well as the propane tank. It's been painted VW yellow (original color brown). My favorite addition is the louvered window.

It starts and runs great but it does not like long trips (3+ hours)

I'm moving to Florida and I don't think it would make it that far unless I took 2 weeks to get there. I will lose my local mechanic (brother and friend) who installed the engine. No AC means I wouldn't have much use for it down there anyway and I want to downsize vehicles from 3 to just 2.

So... I'm thinking about a Eurovan weekender with AC as my main year-round driving car. I know nothing about them. What should I look for? (or lookout for). How reliable are they? Any specific year I should aim for?

Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:43 pm

Just an opinion - but I suppose that is what you're asking for: After you have looked at some EV Weekenders take a look at what that same money would buy in a water-cooled Vanagon Westy.

Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:13 pm

I Have nothing against Eurovans, but seeing how you have a Vanagon why not just upgrade to a late Vanagon Weekender. Eurovans seem to experience transmission failures, but I have seen some with close to 200k miles and still going. It seems that If you are set on getting a Eurovan try to get one from the original owner with maintenance records. I too was going to get a weekender as a 3rd car, but got another Vanagon (this time a Weekender). Anyway it seems that Eurovans are just as susceptible to rust as Vanagons. So if you see a Eurovan with any rust walk away.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:11 am

Love my Eurovan WK. Awesome AC.!

Cruises at 80mph (or more) effortlessly. Even on our mountain passes here in Colorado.

I've seen 400k vans on original autos and huge Rialta motorhomes living with the factory transmission. (Also seen 700k mile T4 vans in the UK)

204 HP from the factory is going to be more reliable than any swap! Take to any dealer of independent and they can work on it.m

Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:44 am

The AC in the Vanagon is just not adequate for the Florida heat as a daily driver. I have been battling with my AC in my van again since 1987. It takes about 30 minutes to cool the interior to just feel adequate. The VW dealer used to use the Eurovan as their courtesy van and I rode in it several times in the heat of the summer in Miami and that AC would freeze you. It worked great. Get the Eurovan in the color white for the Florida sun and you'll be much happier.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 12:53 pm

Westified,
I re-did my A/C system and it's so cold I have to run it on low. 42 degree output on recent trip. (RedTek and all new stuff) So it is possible to have good air conditioning in a vanagon.

You're right that most of the old systems are wheezing along on their last gasps.......

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:16 pm

For me, the question is where do you plan to go with your westy? If the tires will never leave the pavement, then the EV is ok. But, if you plan to leave the beaten path and use dirt track roads, the EV is at a huge disadvantage compared to the vanagon in stock form. It is significantly lower and would need suspention upgrades. If it where me, I would move up to a later model and have the A/C overhauled and brought up to r134.

Hans

Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:17 pm

JudoJeff wrote: Westified,
I re-did my A/C system and it's so cold I have to run it on low. 42 degree output on recent trip. (RedTek and all new stuff) So it is possible to have good air conditioning in a vanagon.

You're right that most of the old systems are wheezing along on their last gasps.......

From what you and others say, it sounds like redtek is the way to get good AC in the Vanagon. I first had R12 only fair, now R134a which sucks. Did you go with a parallel flow condenser? Also, which compressor are you using, I have a Sanden 508. Finally, aren't you afraid of all thar propane in your lines with RedTek? I talk with AC shops and mechanics in Miami and they never heard of RedTek. Isn't that a Canadian product?

Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:19 pm

I believe most shops are only going to work with R12 & R134a as they have to dedicate equipment to specific refrigerants and simply cannot set-up to handle all the other variations available (e.g. RedTek, Freeze12, etc).

I am still using R12 albeit with a modern condenser (larger, parallel flow) and the later Vanagon radiator fan. It cools quite well.

What is a challenge for the Vanagon AC (mine at least) is cooling the van if it has sat in the sun for hours and the interior air & contents are all 130° or so.

I suppose that is a challenge for most cars, the difference is most AC systems blow the cold right in your face -- the rear-mounted Vanagon AC is not effective at direct cooling of the driver simply because of the disatance involved.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:21 pm

No. 1: Dont move to Florida.
No 2. If you move to Florida, but a small little compact car with A/C, automatic tranny and high fuel efficiency to shoot in and out of all the traffic.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 7:32 pm

Ahwahnee what is the difference in the later radiator fan from the 84-85 fan. What did you need to do to install it? I talked to another mechanic who is recommending that I go back to R12. Which compressor are you using? Did you replace your evaporator blower motor?

You are right, when the van gets super heated from sitting in the sun it is difficult to cool it down. Also, the Eurovan has front AC vents that blow on the driver making it more comfortable in Florida. I believe RSXSR installed a front AC in his Vanagon.

Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:25 pm

westified
RedTek is American, I think the factory is in Tennessee (?). I put in all new everything, except the evaporator. I used the EZ-Clip Aeroquip system of hoses and connectors. The condenser is a parallel flow one. I have the Bostig conversion, which provides more power, and used a Ford zetec compressor.

If you look at the RedTek DIY thread here on Samba, your questions will be answered. Everyone who've switched to R12a (RedTek) is very happy with the results. Yes, 134a is a joke.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:40 am

Westified wrote: Ahwahnee what is the difference in the later radiator fan from the 84-85 fan. What did you need to do to install it? I talked to another mechanic who is recommending that I go back to R12. Which compressor are you using? Did you replace your evaporator blower motor?

As I understand it, the later radiator fan motor is larger, more powerful, has more speeds and requires the later larger shroud. In addition to the install of the shroud & motor, the wiring is different and there is a resistor required to control the speeds. I had this work done for me as there was a local shop well versed in Vanagon A/C (owner has a nice Westy with both front and rear A/C units).

Compressor was stock as is the rear blower fan. I did have them replace the radiator at the same time, more out of caution than to address a known problem.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:00 am

You lost me when you said; 1.it does not like long trips.

2. When you move you will lose your local mechanic.

If your mechanic can't make your van go more than a 2 hour drive it is probably best you lose him. No offense.

Moving to Florida does create some challenges for a van but it also has some MASSIVE advantages;

First off, Florida is flat as a pancake. There simply aren't any mountains or real hills. Vanagons love this.

Second, there are incredible fishing, camping, snorkeling and exploring opportunities in Florida, all of which beg you to drive a vanagon.

The ac issue certainly creates a challenge. If I lived in Florida I would have a safari roof to block the sun, tinted front door windows, a tinted windshield top, a sun reflector for when parked, insulated body (standard on westies) and if the van was not equipped with air I would bolt on a rooftop rv unit and a honda generator on a rear bumper rack. Both of these can be found on Craigslist cheap.

Neil2

Sun Aug 17, 2014 9:24 am

Ahwahnee wrote: Westified wrote: Ahwahnee what is the difference in the later radiator fan from the 84-85 fan. What did you need to do to install it? I talked to another mechanic who is recommending that I go back to R12. Which compressor are you using? Did you replace your evaporator blower motor?

As I understand it, the later radiator fan motor is larger, more powerful, has more speeds and requires the later larger shroud. In addition to the install of the shroud & motor, the wiring is different and there is a resistor required to control the speeds. I had this work done for me as there was a local shop well versed in Vanagon A/C (owner has a nice Westy with both front and rear A/C units).

Compressor was stock as is the rear blower fan. I did have them replace the radiator at the same time, more out of caution than to address a known problem.

Thanks for the response Ahwahnee. I will talk to my mechanic about these items. I am at least going to do the parallel flow condenser and go back to R12. If that doesn't work then I will try the fan upgrade then RedTek. Need AC here in Miami. It would be great to have dual AC. Wish your mechanic was closer.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:57 am

Have you ever done this?

You're talking to your wife while looking at the computer screen -- you go on and on explaining something -- then look up and see that she left the room some time ago.

I notice that the OP has not visited the Samba since he made this one post on August 15. Still, an interesting discussion.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:16 am

<<RedTek is American, I think the factory is in Tennessee (?).>>

Canadian--
US headquarters in TN.

<<If you look at the RedTek DIY thread here on Samba, your questions will be answered. Everyone who've switched to R12a (RedTek) is very happy with the results.>>

It's about as close to R-12 performance as you can get without overloading the antique AC equipment, that is if you haven't replaced everything --then you'll enjoy super cooled air.

<< 134a is a joke.>>

It was a joke when the EPA mandated it's use, it a bigger joke now, especially seeing as it's just as bad for whatever they were trying to protect in the first place.
The sheep had no choice--follow the leader--
and for an old R-12 system it is a real big joke.

If you are in or around Dade Co, ( or anywhere in the south for that matter) a good up and running AC unit is a real good item to have in your vehicle.
But--as it is for any luxury, it all depends on what your willing to spend on your AC unit to get it functional.
I and I mean reliably functional.
If you don't have the proper AC tools, it's going tp cost some bucks to get to were you can service your own vehicle.
If you don't want to make the big drop in bucks for the correct AC equipment, it's going to cost more to have someone do it, and mainatin it.

Any vehicle's AC will & can have problems regardless of what it is--so trading off your Vanagon for a Eurovan may not be a long term solution for you.
My 87 Westy AC blows 38 degree's in town out of the vents, and it gets cool pretty quick, and starts sucking the humidty out of the Van fast--a little TLC keeps it that way.
I'm pretty happy with that.
I think that buying a Eurovan just for the sake of the AC system in it is a monetary error--Even in Dade County.

Sun Aug 17, 2014 2:01 pm

Thanks for the response TK. Yes it is hot here. Right now it is 91 with a heat index of 104. In the winter I don't need AC. It was the original poster that wants to get rid of his 82 Vanagon, not me, I have an 84 Westy Wolfsburg. I am keeping mine and going to fix the AC one way or another. I had a 72 Westy that I bought new(sold), and wanted to put in AC but everyone said it wouldn't work so I never did. I have read many of the AC threads that contain, like you said very good information. Getting 38 degrees from the vents is excellent. Yes, you are right it will cost some bucks to get running properly. I am going to replace all my hoses, dryer, o rings and go with a parallel flow condenser. I am going to first try R12. If that doesn't work then its RedTek. Another poster mentioned that since Florida is flat the Vanagon would be fine. He is right. My 1.9 just hums along, I can do 80 mph but now cruise 65-70. I drove my 72 Westy to Colorado in the Rocky Mountain National Park on Trail Ridge Road, over 12,000 feet. My wife (now X) was scared to death but the Westy was able to keep up with traffic.
I still think the OP will be happier with a Eurovan in Florida as a daily driver because the AC comes from the front.