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Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:27 am

Hi,

my first visit to this side of the site but the old boy finally threw in the towel so its engine rebuild time.

I'm confident I can build the engine but I'm struggling to spec it and would value some help. This is a new area to me.

I have a 1975 2.0L auto VW Camper. Its main use is daily driver and camping trips, nothing special. UK based.

What I want is a bus that can pull uphill with confidence and possibly/hopefully could be a bit more economical to drive. I don't need blistering performance/power, its a family bus and driving a fully loaded camper much over 75mph is scary and not something I plan on doing too often.

I live in the UK but will happily ship stuff from the states as there is so much more choice. My budget doesn't go as far as a Jake Raby Camper special (unfortunately), I don't mind spending some money but $9000+ is a bit high for me.

I have not pulled my engine but I am working on the basis the case is ok. I want a new crank smoother/balanced and cam. I have 2.0l already, I am happy with that as more power will probably mean less economical. My heads/cylinders may be knackered and it might be worth replacing anyway. Once its all together/running I will get it professionally rolling road tuned as the afm setup is not something I want to play with.

I have started to read up on stroker engines but thats all a bit new right now, not sure if its something I need. I have also come across a couple of sites that suggest my 1975 auto might be a bit different to normal.

Can anyone help me/steer me as to what I need to buy to get going. I guess I am looking for something a bit better than stock but not a performance racer.

Many thanks

PG

this is my engine sound now by the way, no idea what it is but its not right.
Code: http://speedy.sh/jCT4d/sickcamper.mp3 do the slow download

Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 pm

you're right , does not sound good ! :roll:
The best diagnostic tool is the leak down test, along with visual inspection of the valve train components. It sounds like " valve " noise. The leak down results will help tell the general condition of each cylinder and head ,along with this , the visual inspection will also give you the opportunity to inspect each spark plug. With the inspection of the valve train, you are looking for proper valve adjustment , making certain each valve is operating correctly and that nothing is broken , excessively worn, bent or otherwise amiss.
You did not say what the mileage is or any recent/past work history on the motor, oil consumption etc .
Did it suddenly start making the clattering noise ?
Does it go away ? Is the motor warmed up ?
Have you lost engine power?
I know this is lots of questions but you are now the detective and will have to figure things out.
There is tons of information on this site, have you heard about a dropped valve ? ( a very real possibility on a high mileage or overheated engine )
Can you rebuild the engine ? most likely yes .Lets find out what is broke first.

Good luck 8)

Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:25 pm

Hi,
thank you for the reply.
mileage unknown, the speedo was broken when I bought it but I suspect original engine, so 40 years of motoring under its belt.

Full description of what happened here - my break down posting on the bay section - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=603553

The alternator nut came loose and I think the fan was not spinning. This may be incidental but I found this afterwards and it would make sense. Overheat ! but never had alt light to alert me.

Loss of power, it will creep forward and I won't push it any faster than that. it won't disappear when its warmed up(i.e noisy hot and cold). I checked my valves (reset them) and pulled/changed the plugs, they were lean and had got hot.

Valve train ok, nothing particularly amiss which suggests internal. Valve or broken crank. I think crank seal might be leaking now due to oil around pulley cage. i have oil spits from exhaust but nothing else, not leaking on the garage floor.

Not sure if any of that makes sense but I have decided to rebuild and if the case is ok I will change most other parts regardless, a treat for him, its about knowing what to use/spec.

many thanks
PG

Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:05 pm

For a decent power boost without too many modifications, a big bore setup would be the way to go. Something larger, but not something that will be too powerful for your flexplate to handle. I think the next common size up after 94mm pistons is the 96mm. I'd recommend using a stock cam with your auto setup because I believe the system relies on engine vacuum.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:20 am

Thank you bugguy, i had no idea the cam affected vacuum so i've learnt something there.

stock cam it is.

I found out I have a 71mm stroke crank would a balanced stock crank be my best option or is this a good opportunity to improve/upgrade to something better as an improvement such as longer stroke.

I have a local machine shop which is recommended for balancing. That in itself will be a huge improvement.

if I fitted 96mm barrels/pistons would I need a new cylinder head as well.

Thanks
PG

Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:57 am

First off a type 4 engine has the fan attached to the crankshaft. If the alternator belt breaks, the engine still cools. The battery can't charge, but you will not overheat.

We type 4 guys do not need a counterweighted crankshaft like the beetle guys use. Stay with stock 94mm pistons and cylinders.

If it were me, I would invest the real money in better heads, camshaft and valve train assembly. That is not only where the real power gets made, but where the engine can actully run cooler in the cylinder heads wehre it counts.

I would make no decisions until the engine is apart and the local machinist mics it all out to see how close to spec it is.

We try to avoid align boring a type 4 engine if possible since no one can do it very well on this side of the pond. Usually they don't need it anyway.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:39 am

thanks Randy, didn't realise this was your area so nice to see you in this part of the thread.

A friend of mine popped over this afternoon, as before camper started up and ticked over (no load), bit noisey.

His thoughts were nothing apparent on the outside so poss cracked piston or big end gone, my oil pressure light flickered when it started to die on the journey.

but its def internal so engine comes out over the next few days/week for a strip down.

Can I ask about the heads Randy, how does that improve things, i'm keen to find out as much as possible. Some of the info is opposite but at the end of the day its my decision. Torque is what I think I want - although any rebuild will be a million times better than it is now.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:05 am

I know that you are in GB and shipping and currency is always an issue. Also are more local sources for various parts and how available they are. Whatever you will want to have some new heads that will need to be "improved on" with better valve seats and better hardward than they come with. If you do something like "Raby Camper Special Heads" you will want to use his camshaft and improved lifters to really get the most out of them. They have more power (because they breathe better) and run cooler, but they are more money.

So either...

1) I would either invest in a complete "longblock" from somebody like Adrain at Headflow Masters and have himm ship it to me ready for my "keep stuff" like the FI and that sort of thing to bolt on at your house. He does a nice job.

http://www.headflowmasters.com/

or 2) if you want to build the engine yourself a sort of Raby inspired engine, invest in the camper special heads and valve train from L & N Engineering.

[email protected]

When you send them an e-mail tell them that you have an auto transmission and are running on LP gas. Ask them what they suggest.

For the record I have a Raby CS kit that I put together a few years ago. Send me a PM if you want more information. Building an engine is a lot of fun.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:36 pm

bugguy1967 wrote: I'd recommend using a stock cam with your auto setup because I believe the system relies on engine vacuum.

can someone expand on this, not saying its not true, I just don't understand it (the relationships) and I would like to.

PG

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:27 pm

The cam determines the vacuum signature of the engine. The trans mission uses the vacuum in the manifold to sense what the load is on the engine. If you go too large on the cam it cause a drop in vacuum and makes the transmission think that you have the throttle pegged and rev out the gear instead of short shifting under light load.

You can use a better cam than the stock head cooking cam with the auto. Anything that works with the stock injection should not upset the transmission.

Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:48 pm

Anything other than a the stock cam won't give you that fine Type 4 engine FI idle taht we all love.

Mine is a little "lumpy" like it has a big split duration cam in it. 8)

Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:10 pm

trbugman wrote:
You can use a better cam than the stock head cooking cam with the auto.

what is a 'better cam' though. I really wouldn't know where to start.

What I don't want to do is cook it, damage the flex plate but 40 years technology etc on I am willing to add improvement.
Love the Raby stuff but the budget doesn't go that far unfortunately.
PG

Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:39 pm

Hi , sounds like the engine is coming out to be rebuilt , the good news is it comes out and comes apart pretty easily.
You will have to decide how it is going back together and it is just , well , a lot of decisions. :?
I have been in your position and will share the quick version of my story.
82 vanagon air cooled 2.0 l bought cheap ----- barely running , no power .
Tests showed poor compression on #1,2 and 3 . Results of leak down 50%thru rings on #1 and 2 , 90% thru intake on # 3 .
So engine out and apart ( remember the easy part ) :)
I find - sunken intake valve seat # 3 , scorched and scarred pistons and cylinders , # 4 cylinder had 125 lb. compression and was the only ' running ' cylinder and not far behind the rest had I continued to drive it .
Other conclusions - Previously rebuilt ,AMC heads , Rimco stamped case with different case halves ( 2 engine #'s , lol :lol: ) Did not take apart case, bearing play , end play , connecting rod big end play all ok , camshaft and lifters ok . I made the assumption that the bottom end had been a rimco rebuilt .
Living in Hawaii and no machine shop services on island lead to rebuilt as follows -One new AMC head , new set Mahle pistons and cylinders , front and rear seals , gasket set , exhaust gaskets , oil filter and plugs .
"Volia" Back in business ! She now runs great, 4K miles ( and a lot less $$ ) on the ' fix ' and a happy camper. Now remember , this is not my daily driver , I live on a small island , slow driving and short trips to the beach and shops . I did splurge on a Digital Dakota CHT gauge ,saw 400 deg on a 3000 ft hill climb and simply downshifted and slowed down. :idea:( I believe the gauge is necessary insurance for these heads )
Dual Weber ICT 34 carbs ( already on and still on ,rejetted and tuned ) stock AMC heads , stock cam , hydraulic lifters new P & C's , Bug Pack 4 into 1 header ( no heat needed )
For me my fix was cheap and quick , you will have to decide how to proceed.
I will be following to see if you ' upgrade ' or stay stock .

Aloha David

Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:09 pm

pgtips wrote: trbugman wrote:
You can use a better cam than the stock head cooking cam with the auto.

what is a 'better cam' though. I really wouldn't know where to start.

What I don't want to do is cook it, damage the flex plate but 40 years technology etc on I am willing to add improvement.
Love the Raby stuff but the budget doesn't go that far unfortunately.
PG

You need to talk to cam grinders with your goals.

Here is what Web Cam offers.

Sun Aug 24, 2014 10:49 am

During my own search about rebuilds and improvements I came across these two knowledgeable gentlemen and their builds . Their builds are contained within this thread from shoptalkforums.com http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=143948
I started the thread about fitting IDF carbs into a vanagon and among the replies look for posts from -- NobyDoby & udidwht . They both have very mild builds that look sensible and reliable without straying too far from stock.
Hope you find these of interest.

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:42 pm

thank you.
plenty of useful info there.

Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:29 pm

Did I read you run LP gas- can you show pics of your set up? Thanks.

Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:38 pm

You can bump up the cam a little on the T4 engine with out disrupting the vacuum signature to the auto trans. I installed a T4 engine in my Squareback with an auto trans.

The motor itself is pretty mild. It is a 2L, with a Scat C25 cam, ported and polished 1700 heads with 8:1, 0.045 deck. Balanced stock rods (end to end & total) 914 P&C (94mm), Solid spacer 1700 rocker arms with swivel adjusters (Ford). 72-74 heater boxes with thunderbird header and Suzuki Hayabusa muffler. It also has dual ICT Webers.

As far as the vacuum signal to the trans, I just pulled it from the carb balance tube and it shifts great. However, to be on the safe side, you can throw some pressure gauges on the trans and adjust the vacuum modulator if needed. However, if you are running FI, I believe that the cam will give you more grief in that area.

Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:51 am

thanks guys, the more i understand the more I plan to stick as stock as possible, I am not unhappy driving my bus I just thought there might be a window to improve but I could introduce problems.
thanks again though, all the contributions have helped me loads to understand where I am going.

re LPG pics, pm me in about a month as engine coming out means not much to see.

PG