TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:07 pm

I have a question in regards to exhausts.

I recently picked up a 63' bug with a pretty fresh "aged" 1600 dp engine. The engine was a fresh build back in 2008, but then essentially sat until I picked up the car a few months ago. I've replaced all the leaky and cracked issues with the engine, but now I am down to looking at replacing the exhaust. It currently has what looks like a rusty, probably empi, merged header that leaks at all the flanges, with a stinger pipe, and I'm guessing stock flanged heater boxes. Additionally, during the resto on the car back in the late 90's, the two stock exhaust cutouts were filled in to have a flush look.

I would normally entertain the idea of a mild, stock type exhaust, but due to the cutouts being removed, I don't want to deal with the problems assoicated in trying to fit a oem dual pea shooter style exhaust.

So, I have been looking at exhausts like the sidewinder style, or even the hideaway. The fatboy style exhaust could work, but I'm not a huge fan of how that exhaust loops out and around.

So my real question, is would a sidewinder exhaust in 1 1/2 be too overkill of a setup on my 1600 engine?

Is the removal of the heater boxes recommended to aide in better performance of a exhaust/engine combo? I don't anticipate really driving the car during winter, but the shoulder seasons can be chilly so I would prefer to keep them.

Are there other recommendations on a decent exhaust? I know the 1600 is not a powerhouse engine, but I'd rather pay for a quality decent product once, than keep buying cheap exhausts that are ill fitting.

Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:37 pm

Yes.

Any 1 3/8" http://www.tri-mil.com/

Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:21 am

Since your car is old school, How about an Empi 3300 exhaust? They still make them.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:50 am

Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:53 am

Quite frankly, theres no such thing as overkill when it comes to exhaust pipe diameter (with the exception of turbo motors where exhaust pressure is crucial). Everybody who has argued with me about this through the years hasn't been able to cite one bit of personal experience of a detrimental/catastrophic event resulting from running a larger exhaust. Exhaust is a WASTE GAS. It doesn't care what size pipe it runs through. Go ahead and get the 1 1/2". You might thank yourself down the road if you decide to build a bigger motor

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:19 am

Brian, so everyone throughout history must be complete idiots for running merged systems, step headers, equal length tubing, etc instead of three inch pipes at each port. Oh, and you're right about the exhaust gas not caring what size piping it runs through. The engine cares. Racerdave has had experience with exhaust swapping while making passes.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:23 am

bugguy1967 wrote: Brian, so everyone throughout history must be complete idiots for running merged systems, step headers, equal length tubing, etc instead of three inch pipes at each port. Oh, and you're right about the exhaust gas not caring what size piping it runs through. The engine cares. Racerdave has had experience with exhaust swapping while making passes.

Did i dispute the existence of such exhaust systems? Perhaps only certain people are idiots...

Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:57 pm

[email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

Oh wow, didn't know they had them that sat lower. But again, the exhaust sizing is the 1 1/2"....

I'm not new to performance enhancements with engines, just new to the air cooled world. That's why I asked about an exhaust being too big.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:17 pm

Of course an exhaust can be too big. For a 1600 go no larger than 1 1/2". 1 5/8" is too big, unless you are regularly over 6k RPMs.

On a 1600 you will get similar results with a 1 3/8" or 1 1/2", one is slightly better to 3500, the other better over 3500.

A properly sized and engineered system will actually suck the exhaust out of the cylinder when the exhaust valve is open. This is what "exhaust tuning" does. If the exhaust is too big it is like having no exhaust on there, the engine actually loses power because the suction is non-existent.

When the system is properly sized it sucks the cylinder empty in the RPM range you have determined you want the most power.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:35 pm

[email protected] wrote: Of course an exhaust can be too big. For a 1600 go no larger than 1 1/2". 1 5/8" is too big, unless you are regularly over 6k RPMs.

On a 1600 you will get similar results with a 1 3/8" or 1 1/2", one is slightly better to 3500, the other better over 3500.

Thank's for the info, that helps a lot.

Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:06 pm

[email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

So that's just their muffler, I would still need a header and I'm not seeing the correct one... Is there a header from vintage speed with the heat riser flanges, or would they need to be added?

Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:37 pm

Brian71 wrote: bugguy1967 wrote: Brian, so everyone throughout history must be complete idiots for running merged systems, step headers, equal length tubing, etc instead of three inch pipes at each port. Oh, and you're right about the exhaust gas not caring what size piping it runs through. The engine cares. Racerdave has had experience with exhaust swapping while making passes.

Did i dispute the existence of such exhaust systems? Perhaps only certain people are idiots...

Never mentioned you disputing the EXISTENCE of anything. Everyone already knows they exist. Re-read please.

For the original question, a 1 1/2 will work ok after re-adjusting you a/f ratio after bolting on the header. You will no longer have pre-heat, which aids driveability and fuel mileage. I'd either modify the header for pre-heat, or use an exhaust with such provisions.

Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:51 pm

[email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:49 pm

krs.br79 wrote: [email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

So that's just their muffler, I would still need a header and I'm not seeing the correct one... Is there a header from vintage speed with the heat riser flanges, or would they need to be added?

No header required. It just needs heater boxes or j tubes to complete it. The muffler has the heat riser flanges.

Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:28 pm

shane red wrote: [email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Compared to a $1900 header for my BMW, and a $1300 muffler section, that's a bargain in my mind.

Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:40 pm

Northof49 wrote: krs.br79 wrote: [email protected] wrote: Consider something like

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Vintage-Speed-SS-Sport-Muffler-155-203-05100-p/155-203-05100.htm

So that's just their muffler, I would still need a header and I'm not seeing the correct one... Is there a header from vintage speed with the heat riser flanges, or would they need to be added?

No header required. It just needs heater boxes or j tubes to complete it. The muffler has the heat riser flanges.

Okay... I see now. I was able to find a schematics of the oem setup. Makes a little more sense.

Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:11 pm

All hobbies have similar views. Normally the guys that poo poo the $8k bicycle are the ones that have no chance of affording one.

shane red wrote: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:19 pm

So, I ended up ordering the VS exhaust, and finally had time to put it on today.

I will say it was not as easy as I expected. Probably a good six hours of messing with it, and it's still not finished.

While I do think the exhaust itself is of great quality, the hardware that came with it is very cheap. The adjustable flanges are probably a great idea on paper, but I think it provides more failure points, especially with the cheap nuts and bolts.

I've tried numerous combos on bolting this thing together, and I still have leaks at 3 of the 4 flanges. I even pulled everything off and used copper gasket spray and doubled up on gaskets, and swapped out some of the cheap nuts. Still leaky.

Does anyone know of a place that sells thicker quality gaskets? Am I doing something wrong here?

Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:41 pm

Here's where it's leaking.

Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 pm

Did i dispute the existence of such exhaust systems? Perhaps only certain people are idiots...[/quote]
dam now that a quote if I ever saw one :shock: I would never poo poo a $8000 bicklecycle, wish I could, then I could wash them and sell them and afford the car of my dreams.....dam I wish I could sleep and speel...oops spell. sory, my rong.
a exhaust dosent have to be pretty to be functional,and thus it dosent have to be functional to be pretty.it's a lot easyer to make a pretty one than a functional pretty one that fits and does what it should do.